Incorrect roundabout exit from voice prompt

[DavehwT]

Happy new year, as I said previously Serious and dangerous stuff .
This started as an observation but by the response somebody needs to take this to the map generators as it could lead to somebody having an accident and would TomTom be liable?, if it could be proved that TTG information caused the problem. This may make them look more deeply at the problem and correct it. The situation is worse if you are driving at night. As I said before I tested TTG against Garmin Street Piolt 111 and the SP111 was correct at every roundabout. If Garmin can get it right so can TTG.

[Tim Buxton]

Dave,

Quite simply, it wouldn't happen. Just because GPS with audio/visual guidance is used as a navigational aid, its use doesn't absolve the user of the necessity to use the sense(s) they were born with. If my wife was giving me navigational instructions and her instructions were that I should travel through No Entry signs, would I be able to prosecute her if I had an accident? No. If it happened at night, would that make any difference? Again, No. It's been mentioned here time and time again that maps, even paper ones, aren't up to date.

The use of GPS is and aid, not the be all and end all.
_________________
Tim

[DavehwT]

Seemed to have touched another nerve here, what I am trying to say is that if one company at least can get their voice system right why can't others.
If you always drove through places you know why buy a GPS.
If your plane took you to the wrong destination due to bad GPS directions suddenly it would matter.
The whole purpose of the system is to guide you through unknown territory, this TTG does brilliantly except for mainly roundabouts. The opportunity to expand its functions with POI's is great. The point is the maps are not wrong they show every turn off on the roundabouts its the voice guidance which is wrong or the software which decides what exits to tell you about and what to ignore. The voice surely is there to help and avoid us looking at something other that the road at critical times. Dont get me wrong again I state I think the TTG is a great device and has helped me enormously, its on a point like this where I think safety could be at risk no matter how good a driver you are that the system needs some upgrading.
How many of us have nearly driven into the rear of the car in front at a roundabout because we think the car has pulled away, perhaps we are in a rush, late for work etc.
Thats without GPS so if we have to look and check our exit on the screen as well its just another visual distraction. If the voice guidance is accurate that extra risk is removed. Wrong voice directions at busy roundabouts especially at peak times can put you in the wrong lane which you then cannot get out of and end up going the wrong way. The sense you are born with does not pepare you for the pressure of todays driving I drive 100-250 miles a day with calls to 8-10 customers, as I said TTG has really helped me and virtually stopped me from having to stop to read a map or find directions in a town using a local street map.
My point of mentioning liability was to get a reaction which it did and again I have no qualms with the maps just the accuracy of the voice prompts which is a programming problem and could be solved.
Many thanks for reading this, comments are most welcome.

[wildcard]

There are a collection of roundabout issues with Tom Tom and in my view these are a mix of mapping and software problems.

- the voice prompts are sometimes bizarre and seem to vary inexplicably
eg for a simple first exit ( less than 180deg ) you get a mix of "Go right at the roundabout , first exit " or "cross the roundabout , first exit" but almost never the most natural "go left at the roundabout ,first exit" . From memory these prompts are repeated without the "first exit" which makes it even more confusing. During the first few weeks of use when presented with "go right ,first exit " , I wasn't sure whether to take the 90deg or the 270deg exit .
- the little graphic doesn't always show the correct angle - I assume it snaps to a fixed set of 7 ( plus a complete circuit )- but is always seems to go to the angle that just bigger rather than nearest.
- however in my experience the map has always been right and the exits correctly counted . Having been caught out by the voice prompt and the graphic I now instinctively check the map at every new roundabout - this isn't ideal as you need to take your eyes off the road for a split second when you should be giving full attention to the roundabout.
- when is a one way system a roundabout ? . I come across one in Uxbridge ( known locally as the Marjacks roundabout although it has a large office block in the middle ) . If you are taking the A4020 from the M40 straight through town it gives no directions at all on the roundabout itself - as you are not deviating from the main road .

Geoff

[SimonB]

On this subject of roundabouts. I've been very dissapointed with the handling of roundabout comments on my parents TTG I got them for Xmas.

you can enter a roundabout once, and it will give the correct exit count, and other times it will could it incorrectly! It seems to depend on the route you are taking.

I use both SmartST V2 and TomTom 3 on my pocket PC, and they both handle the roundabout counts perfectly (I know Navman one is using other mapping data) - but the older maps on the Tomtom 3 give correct roundabout exits compared the TTG instructions though, with newer maps!!!

Does anyone know if Tomtom are looking into this issue?? - I do have one of the newer TTG's with updated maps.

[Tim Buxton]

DavehwT,

You'll probably find that the Garmin software will get other voice directions wrong. Ideally every software package would be 100% perfect, but we don't live in an ideal world.

If a 'plane I was on took me to the wrong destination due to bad GPS directions, I'd question the pilot's ability! GPS is surely a secondary system to maps, compass, stars, etc.?

I agree that the purpose of GPS is to guide you through unknown territory but you still have to apply some common sense. There is, for instance, a road in Ashford, Kent which used to go over the railway line as a level crossing. This crossing was taken out maybe five years ago, when the flyover was built for the Channel Tunnel trains. This is correctly mapped in my three (or so) year old Navteq data but it is still shown as a valid route in my new TeleAtlas data! If I were routed over this non-existant crossing and followed the route, whose fault would it be?

As to having to look to see if the car in front has pulled away, and check that the exit we want is the correct one, I don't see either of these as visual distractions. They are both examples of a driver using observational skills, IMO. Now, when we get to the stage of cars being self-driving, self guided and self-thinking, we will be able to pass on the blame for any accident; until then, the onus is fully on the driver.

This one could run for days and days......
_________________
Tim

[DavehwT]

Tim Buxton

Nothing like a good debate, however I do not disagree that Garmin stuff can be wrong and at the car GPS level it sometimes gets it wrong, but sofar it has performed well at roundabouts which is the whole point of this discussion.
Garmin is used on airlines, military and marine systems all over the world so you would expect some of that expertise to rub off on its other products. I have flown on the flight deck of several airlines and yes they depend on GPS to help them a great deal.
As a driver I am using observational skills all the time as we all are, but when faced with a roundabout in a strange town that you have never been too before your aim is to negotiate it safetly, why provide voice prompts if they are wrong. As I mentioned before this subject above all seems to have attracted the most adverse comments about the TTG performance from many users. How many users are sitting on the sidelines, 605 readers at the last count, not contributing to this item but may have been affected by it.
Your railway crossing error is the same as the roundabouts basically down to the programmers and map suppliers at TT.
Do they read this forum,? I hope so.
When it comes to a local level and smaller roundabouts the exits are marked by small signs only a few yards from the turnings, and in lots of cases not at all. I dont know how much driving away from home you do Tim but believe me you need your witts about you as the local traffic that knows its way round, cuts you up. I face this 5 days a week and I have come to the stage at roundabouts where I largely ignore TTG and surely that is not the point or the aim of having a GPS, it should and is advertised as a device which can guide you safetly and accurately to your destination both visually and verbally.
Again I state that I have no argument with the maps, they will always lag behind that cannot be helped. I have found for most roundabouts the exits are correct but wrongly voice prompted, again this is solely the way that the programme has been written and TT should be able to resolve this problem. There you go Tim I feel this has run its course but welcome a reply. I am doing a report for my company on the TTG as they are very interested in it as we have over 20 people on the road who would benefit from the system as well as saving the company money in excess mileage,
time and of course this equates to money in fuel etc. My profession electronics and software.

[Tim Buxton]

Dave,

I agree that there's nothing like a good debate; I'm enjoying this one so far. As to the roundabout stuff, you'll see that I own a GPS V; no voice guidance but accurate maps. Pity the screen is so small and not in colour. Maybe when I get my new Triumph next year I'll get the Garmin (looks like a 2620) as an option.

I do enough miles in strange places to understand that it's a jungle out there, especially in strange places. Adds to the need for heightened awareness, I think.

As to the TTGo, it really is down to the data provider, I think. The way I see it is that the data tells the programme how many exits are on each roundabout. The programme can't pick and choose when it uses this data.

If you're appraising the Go, look at Navman's iCN range, too. It has something the Go doesn't in its ability to utilise upto fourteen stopoffs per route. It doesn't auto-optimise the route based on these stopovers, and they have to be accurately located in order to be seen as 'visited', but if you have a need for multi-stops, it is a function which might be worth your consideration, especially as the routes can be saved onto the SD card for future use.
_________________
Tim

[rob-bob]

having used the tt2 on my pda...i have found the map data on the go to be much worse....had the other day coming to a roundabout the icon pointed left the voice said turn left at the roundabout 4th exit it wanted me to go back up the dual carriageway...how can it be soooo wrong tom tom have let alot of people down with this product with the map data....the tomtom go should have had better maps than tt2 but it does not....yes it is an aid but it should be a better aid than the last product....people should not have to be sent down roads that you cannot go down if it has been that way for some time...i can see that it takes time to get the data to the product but not for some roads that have been like it for 2 years plus.....i would never buy another product from tomtom again...all the people still waiting for cases,incorrect map data,later map data on some tomtom go's,and to top it all my screen mount broke the other day(one of the knobs came off)still under guarentee and they will not change it until i send them the old one back via dhl at their cost i know but it will take 5 days for them to check it......if it was designed better it would not have come of if you could tighten it so it does not flop down all the time.........looking at trying to get the place where i bought it from to take it back as there is no case in the box and tomtom have failed to supply one since september....dont know if anyone knows how i stand with that as a return....then they can have the tomtom back and the mount and i can spend me money better.....
Cheers
Rob

[jdatkinson]

The Go is the first GPS product I have used, so i don't have anything to compare it with, but I do find the voice prompts inconsistent. I accept entirely that i am the driver and therefore am observing and have total control etc., but the first time it said, "Cross the roundabout, first exit" I went straight across the roundabout instead of going left as the display suggested. The more i've used it, the more i've got used to its rather odd turn of phrase. The 3D map is far more reliable IMHO, and the odd glance at it when approaching a strange roundabout is normally enough to be able to then concentrate on getting in the right lane to negotiate the roundabout. I presume the voice prompting could be improved with a software updates, and mapping updates have been discussed elsewhere ad nauseum. Overall, I am very happy with it.

[Andybecky]

I found that at the Shipley Bridge roundabout near Gatwick the voice was wrong but picture correct. It seems that it counted someones driveway off the RA as an exit. Obviously going horley to crawley it was correct voice but not when going over M23 turning right to Horley.

Is this because of some form of Aerial mapping?

Also sort of wrong when going from south terminal gatwick to horley. Doesnt count the airport roads that most of the public don`t use.

As has been said, a quick glance at the screen shows what route should be taken.

My taxi customers think it is great but I wish everyone knew where they lived!!!

[Tim Buxton]

[Andybecky]

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