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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:29 am Post subject: Suspect routing.
I know this has been covered before but I must say that, overall, my Garmin 2699 falls far below the standard that it should be given the price I paid for it.
A very large number of roads show the incorrect speed limits for the road, showing 40 when it should be 30 and NSL when it should be 50. They really need to kick some backside or change their suppliers. The speed limits on the roads have been as shown for YEARS. Garmin really has no excuse. The other lot are far superior in this respect. Before someone mentions sending them correct speed limits for their inaccurate ones, there are too many of them that it would take weeks and I am still finding even more wrong 'uns. I find PGPSW camera warnings give me accurate speed limits.
Their routing is awful, consistently wanting to send me down narrow, single track, lanes instead of remaining on safer two lane roads. I am not surprised that vehicles (esp HGV's) are sent down these unsuitable roads and get stuck.
I must give an example of an experience I had yesterday. I was on a road between Fishguard and Cardigan (West Wales) and wanted to plan a route beyond Carmarthen. I am not hugely familiar with the area but had a rough idea that I needed to head in a certain direction. It was sending me South when in my mind, I should have been travelling in a generally Easterly direction. After about 5 miles, it wanted me to turn on to a single track road (Easterly direction) but I refused and turned back to find a 'B' classification road that I had passed some miles before, and was signposted 'Narberth'. Now I knew Narberth would normally have been on my way home.
When I firstly turned back, the miles to my destination was around 56 according to the Satnav. When I turned back, and had travelled about 8 - 10 miles, it STILL wanted me to turn around and, according to the unit, the distance to my destination was now over 80 miles. When I got to Narberth, over 20 miles from when I initially turned back, it STILL wanted me to turn left on to single track roads to rejoin its original plan. It was also still telling me that I was 80+ miles from my destination. Out of curiosity, I reset my trip computer and arrived at my destination in just over 43 miles!
Why oh why didn't the unit, when recalculating, not do so from my actual location to my inputted destination? Is there a setting that I have missed? Why does it insist on sending me on single track roads? Under 'Demo" mode, it also travels at inappropriate speeds along narrow roads. Have I got a rogue unit? I find that the different settings 'fastest' 'shortest' etc still sends me on the single track roads.
What's the best way to get Garmin to take a serious look at there inefficiencies?
I can honestly say that I very nearly placed it under one of my wheels last night and drive over it. I kid you not - such was my frustration!
Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 7040 Location: Reading
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:20 am Post subject:
There could be a link between wrong road speeds and bad routeing. If it thinks a dirt track is a fast road then I guess it will try and use it.
When you first plot the route what are the alternatives via the 'routes' option?
I've used mine very infrequently for a route but when I have it's been OK and I haven't noticed any wrong speeds.
I wonder if your part of Wales has been badly mapped. _________________ Satnav:
Garmin 2599 LMT-D (Indoor test rig)
DashCam:
Viofo A119 V3
Car Average MPG :
Joined: Mar 18, 2011 Posts: 4456 Location: West Sussex
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:38 am Post subject: Re: Suspect routing.
topref wrote:
When I firstly turned back, the miles to my destination was around 56 according to the Satnav. When I turned back, and had travelled about 8 - 10 miles, it STILL wanted me to turn around and, according to the unit, the distance to my destination was now over 80 miles. When I got to Narberth, over 20 miles from when I initially turned back, it STILL wanted me to turn left on to single track roads to rejoin its original plan. It was also still telling me that I was 80+ miles from my destination. Out of curiosity, I reset my trip computer and arrived at my destination in just over 43 miles!
Why oh why didn't the unit, when recalculating, not do so from my actual location to my inputted destination?
Overall I suspect the issue is as Kremmen states, but your nuvi will recalculate from where you are. Why it gave the distances it did can't be determined without knowing the exact details. I'm afraid all satnavs will occasionally throw up a route that doesn't make sense to us mere mortals, but then it has a much smaller brain than we do _________________ Where there's a will ... there's a way.
Kremmen, I can't honestly answer your question regarding alternative routes as I seem to recall that I just pressed 'Go'. The routes offered by the other lot didn't regularly send me along single track roads so I suspect that Garmin need to change their mapping suppliers.
Sussamb: I don't know what other information I could provide but surely the unit shouldn't want to send me, when I am 40 miles from my destination, over 20 miles in the wrong direction to join its original route at a point 60 miles from my desired destination?
I intend contacting the Garmin helpline this morning because last night, I was getting so frustrated that I was trying to decide which way to despatch it to the great satnav graveyard in the sky.
I am taking delivery of a new car in two weeks and it has TT navigation built in but I doubt it could be customised with custom POI's but feel free to correct me on that pllleeeaaassseeee!
Joined: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 10118 Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:29 am Post subject:
Mine routes me through a layby at 50.84545, 0.50991 travelling in either direction. I could understand it westbound, but eastbound?
Report map changes?????
Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 7040 Location: Reading
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:50 am Post subject:
I also have a built in solution, Honda Alpine. I use that for navigation because being built in it mutes the audio for instructions.
I therefore only use the Garmin for cameras and traffic which is why I rarely comment on routeing. _________________ Satnav:
Garmin 2599 LMT-D (Indoor test rig)
DashCam:
Viofo A119 V3
Car Average MPG :
Kremmen, yes that is my intention but the unit doesn't do exactly what it says on the tin.
M8TJT How do I report map changes? As most of my driving is in the Carmarthenshire, Pembrokeshire and Ceredigion areas (known collectively as Dyfed), I hope that the inaccurate supply of information to Garmin may be localised. However, I am travelling to Weston Super Mare tomorrow so will take the unit with me and monitor it, even though it will be mostly Motorway driving.
Joined: Feb 28, 2006 Posts: 100 Location: Brandon, Suffolk, UK
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Suspect routing.
topref wrote:
Before someone mentions sending them correct speed limits for their inaccurate ones, there are too many of them that it would take weeks and I am still finding even more wrong 'uns.
If they are not reported I suspect they will stay as they are until those roads are next surveyed - that's not to say that Garmin will accept any submissions and add to maps of course.
I assume the limits are from the actual survey data and it can take some considerable time from actual survey to reach your satnav.
There was a period some years ago when many, many limits were either added or extended, EU funded I believe, and it will take some time for all those to be added.
Joined: 15/07/2003 22:59:27 Posts: 1050 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:52 am Post subject:
I regularly use both Garmin (including 2699) and TomTom (600 series) in Wales and while I agree that Garmin still has a slight routing disadvantage to TomTom (it has always preferred country lanes - but to a much less extent today than in previous generations) routing and mapping accuracy isn't that dissimilar (although TomToms maps appear to be updates very much quicker)
I would suggest the routing is within Garmins remit as others running Here map data (was Nokia / was Navteq) and also when comparing various software running TomTom Maps (was TeleAtlas) they choose different routes - they interpret the same data differently. In fact the Navigon app (Garmin) and Garmins both produce different routes based on the same map, and especially significant is the lane guidance which is vastly more covered and suprior on the Navigon compared to the Garmin which is complete madless
All I can suggest is checking your route if possible before you set off and drive "with local knowledge" for the best part of your trip and then use the unit to get you to your destination. I understand that is not perhaps what people expect of a sat nav
Alternatively, over the years I have found the Mio units (old Navman) (also very affordable - typically under £100 with lifetime maps) have superior routing to both TomTom and Garmin (although they use TomTom maps). Their let down is older screen technology, a bit robotic speech and poor traffic service - but for door to door, in my considerable experience, its the best (also voice and visual guidance is very good)
One day I hoped we would have it all - but with dedicated Sat Navs running out of favour, it seems that will never been so
FYI with all these units to hand, I use my Garmin 2798 as my unit of choice with Smartlink Traffic as it provides the best "all round" navigation and traffic solution for me - accepting that every day there are times I wish I was using one of my other units _________________ TomTom Go Live 6100, 600
Garmin DriveLux 50, D-Smart 70, NuviCam, 3598, 2699, 2798
Mio Navman 695
Nexus 6p, Apple iPhone 6sPlus and Microsoft Lumia 950xl running TomTom, Garmin, CoPilot, Navigon, Sygic, Here Drive, Google, Waze, MS Maps
Thanks fruit . . . but the speed limit signs on these roads have mostly been there for at least 5 years but I concede that there are some that have been changed within the last 3 years. But, and this is a BIG BUT - TT are mostly accurate so why can't Garmin keep up-to-date too?
Thanks for your input Xtraseller but (there's always a "but" in the first sentence of my responses) even though I use local knowledge for the most part, it's when I don't have this knowledge that it can lead me astray.
With reference to my initial post, I could have travelled an extra 40+ miles if I had followed the directions it gave me. I do voluntary work and get pence per mile but it would have cost me £15 if I'd done so because my mileage is checked against the aa and googlemaps database.
Joined: 15/07/2003 22:59:27 Posts: 1050 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:15 am Post subject:
topref wrote:
Thanks fruit . . . but the speed limit signs on these roads have mostly been there for at least 5 years but I concede that there are some that have been changed within the last 3 years. But, and this is a BIG BUT - TT are mostly accurate so why can't Garmin keep up-to-date too?
TomTom have a much better and more active community feedback system hence more up to date and correct
In response to the £15 / extra in costs I agree it shouldn't be this way, and navigators while we perhaps should never expect perfection, should provide the quickest safest route within a few miles. Anything less is a fail and the unit or software providers should perhaps compensate for a product not fit for purpose. Most of the time I can use local knowledge because I can (although not always) - this should not have to be the case I agree _________________ TomTom Go Live 6100, 600
Garmin DriveLux 50, D-Smart 70, NuviCam, 3598, 2699, 2798
Mio Navman 695
Nexus 6p, Apple iPhone 6sPlus and Microsoft Lumia 950xl running TomTom, Garmin, CoPilot, Navigon, Sygic, Here Drive, Google, Waze, MS Maps
Topref,
Unfortunately, the questionable routing extends to other geographic areas. I have used Garmin satnavs for about 6 years and had no routing issues with them - until this week, whilst driving in Devon.
(If anyone wants to see the offered route have a look on Google. Follow the A35, Axminster Road, eastwards from Honiton; immediately before the Sundial Garden take Featherbed Lane on the right; continue on the lane for about 400 yards until it meets Fern Lane, and behold the quality of routing offered - it's beyond a joke.)
After declining this route and continuing on the A35 my 3598 then wanted to turn at every right turn - however unsuitable. It was extremely annoying.
Back at home I tried the same journey on my 2460, which successfully ignored the problem 'roads'. One of the reasons that I originally bought the 2460 was for the ability to adjust the speed limits, and thereby discourage Garmin's routing through roads I wanted to avoid (without blocking them). Why on earth did Garmin take a backward step in removing this wonderful control from later models? (Rhetorical question.)
I suspect that either map data or routing algorithm have been modified in newer versions, to the overall detriment of the route. (Statement of the bleedin' obvious.)
Overall, there now appears to be a serious problem with the satnav's interpretation of map data where (almost) any line on the map is assumed, by default, to be a 60 mph road. Garmin - bring back a user control to allow corrections.
I have been in touch with the Garmin Helpline and, once I had gone through my issues, he went through the settings with me and said that my selections were correct.
Now, even though I had done this before, I was asked to go the the 'view map' screen and press the 'speed' icon.
This brings up the diagnostics screen and I was then told to press and hold the oval shaped section between 'trip 1' and 'trip 2' for 7 seconds.
In the next window press OK at 'clear all data'. The device then restarts.
I was further told to allow it to acquire satellites and "give it 30 minutes".
The last thing I need to do is connect to my computer and re-install the current maps then this should resolve the issues of it taking me down country roads.
Now, I don't believe that this will resolve it but I have to go through the procedure to at least give them a chance to help me sort it out. He said that if the unit STILL did the same thing then they would:
1. Take it in and check it against their equipment or
2. Exchange for another unit as it is still under warranty.
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