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M8TJT The Other Tired Old Man
Joined: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 10118 Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
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Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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MaFt wrote: | now, real police could do it, but not an automated camera. this is why myself, and a lot of other people here, don't like speed cameras. they don't reduce the number of accidents. | But do raise a lot of revenue |
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aj2052 Frequent Visitor
Joined: Jul 03, 2005 Posts: 1431 Location: Leics,UK
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Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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I can see problems with average speed cameras over longer distances, bearing in mind the difficulty of relating average speed over a distance two problems immediately come to mind:
1) Driver gets held up by traffic or whatever then speeds up because in his own mind feels that he is under the average speed.
2) In the checked section perhaps the driver feels he has exceeded the staed average speed so he then slows down to a crawl and thus creating a backup of frustrated drivers.
niether of these scenarios are conducive to road safety. _________________ Moto G5s Plus, Sygic 17.4.8 |
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jeta1 Regular Visitor
Joined: Nov 07, 2004 Posts: 141 Location: Stockport
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Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 12:00 am Post subject: |
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andy-c1 wrote: | .....I say about time they introduced speed cameras around schools ,now hopefully it will catch many more idiots that drive these roads.
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Good point and most of the 'idiots' around schools are ... the mums .... the standard of driving around school time is a disgrace ... and I'm sorry to say that most of the guilty parties are 'mums'; all too often they drive in a manner that puts everyone at risk; they speed, park badly and generally don't give a about anyone who gets in their way.
Cameras, for speeding and unlawful parking, around schools which are timed to be active when the kids are going to and from school would be a great idea; that would be a genuine use of technology for all the right reasons... |
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sussamb Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Mar 18, 2011 Posts: 4456 Location: West Sussex
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Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:21 am Post subject: |
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MaFt wrote: | sussamb wrote: | MaFt wrote: |
now, real police could do it, but not an automated camera. this is why myself, and a lot of other people here, don't like speed cameras. they don't reduce the number of accidents.MaFt |
Not sure where you get that idea from, the statistics prove otherwise.
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I eagerly await some statistics that prove that speed cameras reduce the number of accidents.
MaFt |
Well here's a start:
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/News/article/6531/speed-cameras-save-lives-tayside-safety-camera-partnership-chief.html |
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DennisN Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14892 Location: Keynsham
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Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 8:10 am Post subject: |
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Oh dear. There's a sidebar right in that very article entitled "Accidents down after speed cameras go" which seems to indicate contrary results. _________________ Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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sussamb Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Mar 18, 2011 Posts: 4456 Location: West Sussex
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Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 9:02 am Post subject: |
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Yes, but read the article not the headline ... |
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M8TJT The Other Tired Old Man
Joined: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 10118 Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
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Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 9:26 am Post subject: |
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I read the article. The report is not statistical evidenc as MaFt wants. Its heresay based on statistics that we are not privy too. It's probably biassed as well as it was a quote from the road safety chief who is hardly likely to say they were a failure is he?
Let me give an example of heresy based on statistice. If ther were two KSI in the first period and one in an identical second period, then KSI would be down by 50%, hooray. But because the totals are so low, and subject to random fluctuations, and perhaps improvement in car safety and perhaps better anti skid road surfaces over the period, as a hard and fast statistic the percentage is meaningless |
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sussamb Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Mar 18, 2011 Posts: 4456 Location: West Sussex
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Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 9:39 am Post subject: |
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I'd agree improvements in car safety can help, but can also give drivers a false sense of security. We drive in a nicely cocooned and quiet well sound proofed environment, and often don't realise the speed we're doing. What's clear simply from observing driver reactions when they see speed cameras is that many speed where there aren't cameras ... and for all the other reasons quoted above many drivers can't even do the simple things like indicate let alone control their cars properly at speed.
What also many don't realise is the minimal time they save compared with the extra risk to themselves and others by speeding. Cameras slow motorists down, and therefore get a thumbs up from me. |
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BigPerk Frequent Visitor
Joined: Sep 06, 2006 Posts: 1618 Location: East Hertfordshire
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Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 10:56 am Post subject: |
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Although accepting the inevitable response of "well, they WOULD say that wouldn't they?", and that this might be a bit like trying to convince conspiracy theorists that there ISN'T a conspiracy , here's a report from Scotland's Chief Statistician about accidents in Strathclyde http://preview.tinyurl.com/5surems I'm not saying this proves the case by any means, but it is an example of (presumably) a genuine statistical exercise - I expect many more could be Googled, with perhaps some contradictory results.
But then there is also the "there's lies, damned lies and statistics" brigade.
So for those of you in any of these camps, you can safely discount any results which don't agree with your own conclusions
(Who was it who said something like 'I don't let trivial things like facts affect my conclusions') _________________ David
(Navigon 70 Live, Nuvi 360) |
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BigPerk Frequent Visitor
Joined: Sep 06, 2006 Posts: 1618 Location: East Hertfordshire
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Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 11:01 am Post subject: |
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Ah, Here's a contrarian view http://preview.tinyurl.com/6cpywxe So there we go ... _________________ David
(Navigon 70 Live, Nuvi 360) |
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povalm Occasional Visitor
Joined: Feb 01, 2006 Posts: 1
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Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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But geeting back to the original article prompting this discussion i.e. that new wide ranging average speed cameras are to be allowed I have to say that I do not have a problem with speed cameras in principle - as long as they are directed at the back of the vehicle and stop discriminating against car, van & lorry drivers who have to display a number plate on the front of the vehicle.
May be someone can explain to me how you identify a motorcycle with an ANPR device that points at the front of the bike. |
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MaFt Pocket GPS Staff
Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 15142 Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
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Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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sussamb wrote: | I'd agree improvements in car safety can help, but can also give drivers a false sense of security. We drive in a nicely cocooned and quiet well sound proofed environment, and often don't realise the speed we're doing. What's clear simply from observing driver reactions when they see speed cameras is that many speed where there aren't cameras ... and for all the other reasons quoted above many drivers can't even do the simple things like indicate let alone control their cars properly at speed.
What also many don't realise is the minimal time they save compared with the extra risk to themselves and others by speeding. Cameras slow motorists down, and therefore get a thumbs up from me. |
There are a number of 40mph cameras near where I live. One on Haworth road and 4 on Great Horton Road. At every single one I can guarantee you that the car in front will slam their brakes on to slow down to 30 causing people to nearly go into the back of them. They were only doing about 38 before the camera. So what's the problem here? Is it drivers going too fast? No, they were under the speed limit. Is it that the road has the wrong speed limit? Possibly - Great Horrton Road certainly feels more like a 30 than a 40 (narrow pavements, built up area etc). Coma pared to Thornton Road which feels like a 40 (big wide road with 4th bike lane each side and an 8 foot cross-hatch up the middle, 14ft wide pavements and houses with 30ft driveways - ie no one is near the road). Or is it that speed cameras cause drivers to panic and thus increase the chance of accidents.
So, you give the thumbs up do a device that makes people suddenly drop 10mph below the legal limit and nearly cause accidents? Cos I don't.
MaFt |
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BigPerk Frequent Visitor
Joined: Sep 06, 2006 Posts: 1618 Location: East Hertfordshire
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Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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I guess they are forward-facing so that they can get a pic of the driver in case of 'arguments'. It is true this is a problem with (speeding) bikers, but they don't all get away with it, for precisely this reason - see this from one of the threads here: Quote: | http://tinyurl.com/68y5kyh |
_________________ David
(Navigon 70 Live, Nuvi 360) |
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sussamb Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Mar 18, 2011 Posts: 4456 Location: West Sussex
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Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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MaFt wrote: |
So, you give the thumbs up do a device that makes people suddenly drop 10mph below the legal limit and nearly cause accidents? Cos I don't.
MaFt |
Well if you drive so close to the guy in front for that to worry you there's no hope
How on earth would you cope if they braked to zero to avoid a child in the road
Last edited by sussamb on Sat May 07, 2011 1:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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M8TJT The Other Tired Old Man
Joined: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 10118 Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
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Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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What's with all this 'tinyurl' stuff. What's wrong with a link that takes you directly to the subject page |
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