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GPS_fan Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 04, 2007 Posts: 2789 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:56 am Post subject: 'New speed limit' sign |
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Like many others, I drive a fairly standard route (to/from work etc) on a regular basis and have familiarised myself both with where the speed limit changes and what it changes to.
If the white lines change or a roundabout is added, this is usually accompanied by a sign saying "New road layout ahead" or "New roundabout ahead"
Why, then, when the speed limit along a stretch of road is reduced (in this case) 40 to 30 is this not accompanied by a sign advising of a new speed limit ahead??
In this particular instance, I think that 30 is a more suitable speed for the road than 40 - but it's just the fact that the speed limit has been reduced without warning that's bugged me a little....maybe, I just got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning
Is it part of the revenue earning potential of roads and the authorities are banking on countless drivers assuming that the speed limit is unchanged to swell their coffers? _________________ Andy
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MaFt Pocket GPS Staff
Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 15219 Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:33 am Post subject: |
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but if they put a new sign up saying 'new sign ahead' then the 'new sign ahead' sign will also need a sign warning of it's existence and then where do you stop?!
seriously though i'd ask the council! from what i understand it's a long legal process to get a road speed changed so i'd have thought there'd have been something in the local paper at some point...
MaFt |
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Skippy Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:01 am Post subject: Re: 'New speed limit' sign |
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GPS_fan wrote: | Why, then, when the speed limit along a stretch of road is reduced (in this case) 40 to 30 is this not accompanied by a sign advising of a new speed limit ahead?? |
Arrrghhhh. No! No more road signs. There are too many cluttering our roads already. _________________ Gone fishing! |
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GJF Frequent Visitor
Joined: Feb 08, 2007 Posts: 894
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:56 am Post subject: Re: 'New speed limit' sign |
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Skippy wrote: | Arrrghhhh. No! No more road signs. There are too many cluttering our roads already. |
Agreed, but it would be fairer to increase the size of speed limit signs.
I often find that one of the most important signs - the speed limit sign, is sited as difficult to find and often very small in size, i agree with GPS_fan that they seem to be Quote: | .....part of the revenue earning potential of roads and the authorities are banking on countless drivers assuming that the speed limit is unchanged to swell their coffers? |
But we don't need any more signs, just clearer. _________________ TomTom Go 60
Garmin Nüvi 660, Firmware v4.90
Drive-Smart GPS with Loader v1.4.16
HTC Advantage X7500 MS 6.1 Tchart Speed Sentry
Satmap Active 10, Software v1.16
Fuzion 32 HUD Bluetooth GPS receiver |
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DennisN Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14901 Location: Keynsham
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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Signs are a specified size - too far back for me to remember them, but you'll find every 30mph sign the same size, repeaters the same (smaller) size, etc. Same as colours - blue for motorways, green for trunk roads, etc.
That will let us all recognise them - you won't find a tiny 30mph sign, they'll all be 600mm diameter or whatever the size should be. Different size specification for road classifications. Different sizing for temp roadworks.
There are rules about chopping back vegetation, but those seem these days to be qualified by the 'green' influence - don't chop nice flowers, bushes or birds' nests, until after the flowering or nesting season - rather negates the vision bit!! _________________ Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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GJF Frequent Visitor
Joined: Feb 08, 2007 Posts: 894
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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DennisN wrote: | Signs are a specified size - too far back for me to remember them, but you'll find every 30mph sign the same size...... |
I realise that, I know that they have to be to specific requirements, but i should of added - in relation to some other signs speed limit signs seem to be small.
Quote: | .........you won't find a tiny 30mph sign...... |
But there are, on some country roads you can find a smaller round, speed limit sign, often if you can see it at all (often hidden by trees etc) it can be in odd places strapped to "other" posts, rather than the conventional small grey metal post.
I'm not sure if these are old signs, which have since been updated and not been changed, or as you say "repeater" signs.
Quote: | ...Different size specification for road classifications. Different sizing for temp roadworks.... |
Why do speed limit signs come in more than one size? _________________ TomTom Go 60
Garmin Nüvi 660, Firmware v4.90
Drive-Smart GPS with Loader v1.4.16
HTC Advantage X7500 MS 6.1 Tchart Speed Sentry
Satmap Active 10, Software v1.16
Fuzion 32 HUD Bluetooth GPS receiver |
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DennisN Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14901 Location: Keynsham
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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GJF wrote: | Quote: | ...Different size specification for road classifications. Different sizing for temp roadworks.... |
Why do speed limit signs come in more than one size? | It's not that they come in different sizes (although they DO), it's that they have specified shapes, symbols, sizes, colours in accordance with the blah, blah blah Regulations 19xx (can't even remember the name of it now!).
All signs are in the good book, colour, size and shape according to the rules. The reason you get different sized speed limit (and all other) signs is the different road classes - stands to reason a bigger sign is needed for us when we're churning along at 70 compared to our sight at 30mph. So you are accustomed to seeing gurt big blue things on motorways, gurt big green things on trunk roads and smaller white things elsewhere (they also act as an unconscious reminder of the type of road you're on). If a country road got a sign the size of a motorway sign, it would overpower you (and take a lump off your caravan too).
That's why you are not allowed to erect your own roadside signs for your burger van or farm shop (I fondly remember going round every once in a while to tell people to take them away - not a popular occupation). _________________ Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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GPS_fan Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 04, 2007 Posts: 2789 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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MaFt wrote: | but if they put a new sign up saying 'new sign ahead' then the 'new sign ahead' sign will also need a sign warning of it's existence and then where do you stop?! |
I hadn't thought of that - it'll keep the signmakers busy and we'll know the speed limit in John O'Groats before we leave Lands' End
...but familiarity breeds contempt as they say and if you're used to the speed limit being 40 and it suddenly changes to 30 overnight, surely there should be something to say "OI, the speed limit has been reduced!"
If I travel home from work on Tuesday evening and the speed limit is 40, why should I expect this to have changed to 30 by 6.30 on Wednesday morning?
The brain often sees what you want it to see and with a speed limit sign the same size, colour, texture, position etc it would be so easy to either not register the change or 'see' the 40 limit still in place.
That's what I think anyway and now I'm going to crawl back into my hole and sulk because nobody agrees with me _________________ Andy
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Skippy Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: 'New speed limit' sign |
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GJF wrote: | But we don't need any more signs, just clearer. |
If I could suggest one change, it would be to paint the speed limit on the road like they do at home in New Zealand. People don't always look at signs on the side of the road (so much clutter these days) but they DO look at the road directly in front of them.
I got stopped by the police once (in my misspent youth) and they asked me if I knew what the speed limit was on this stretch of road. I said I couldn't remember and the cop said "well let this serve as a little reminder to you then" as he handed me a speeding ticket. _________________ Gone fishing! |
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trafficsign Occasional Visitor
Joined: Mar 23, 2007 Posts: 9
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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I was caught out in similar circumstances on the A325 in Hampshire driving through Whitehill and Bordon. For many years the 30 limit in Whitehill changed to a 40 limit just before entering Bordon at a point where there is now a roundabout and Jet Service Station.
When the 40 limit was changed to a 30 limit the 40 signs were taken down and so also were the 40 repeater signs on the lamp posts. This had the result that local motorists who happened to miss the obligatory official announcement in the local press only became aware if they noticed that the old 40 signs had disappeared. From that time the 30 limit through Whitehill was extended through Bordon by default.
The regulations do not permit 30 repeater signs where there is a system of electric street lights placed less than 183 metres apart in England and Wales (185 metres in Scotland) as in this case. Following a complaint to the Highway Authority signs were placed advising motorists of the lower limit. The advisory signs do not appear to be a legal requirement. |
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GJF Frequent Visitor
Joined: Feb 08, 2007 Posts: 894
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: 'New speed limit' sign |
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Skippy wrote: | ......If I could suggest one change, it would be to paint the speed limit on the road like they do at home in New Zealand. People don't always look at signs on the side of the road (so much clutter these days) but they DO look at the road directly in front of them. |
That sounds a much better idea, but too sensible to be taken up by this Government.
I know that in some town areas, road speed limits are marked - on the road and i agree you can't miss them, but the 40 to 30 etc "traps" on longer roads are in most cases not clearly marked with signs, road markings would solve the problem and lorrys and caravans can't hit them. _________________ TomTom Go 60
Garmin Nüvi 660, Firmware v4.90
Drive-Smart GPS with Loader v1.4.16
HTC Advantage X7500 MS 6.1 Tchart Speed Sentry
Satmap Active 10, Software v1.16
Fuzion 32 HUD Bluetooth GPS receiver |
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GPS_fan Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 04, 2007 Posts: 2789 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: 'New speed limit' sign |
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Skippy wrote: | paint the speed limit on the road |
This might also encourage people not to drive right up the **** of the car in front.
The other problem is that in wet weather, road markings don't show up so well - not like the old days when markings seemed to be a little more reflective _________________ Andy
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DennisN Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14901 Location: Keynsham
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: 'New speed limit' sign |
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GPS_fan wrote: | The other problem is that in wet weather, road markings don't show up so well - not like the old days when markings seemed to be a little more reflective | One day, our white lining contractor told our Divisional Surveyor that if he needs to do a lot, he puts a bit less ballotini into the paint (the tiny glass beads which do the reflective bit)!! That's a true story! _________________ Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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GPS_fan Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 04, 2007 Posts: 2789 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:37 am Post subject: Re: 'New speed limit' sign |
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That sounds more like an exotic Italian dish
...and now they're talking about phasing out cats eyes as well and replacing them with solar thingymajigs - all very well on a summer's evening on an open road, but what about a dark winter's morning on a tree-lined road where the sun never shines? _________________ Andy
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GPS_fan Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 04, 2007 Posts: 2789 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: 'New speed limit' sign |
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Skippy wrote: | paint the speed limit on the road |
There's a 40 limit that I drive through every day and the speed limit is painted on the road...but in the rain and when it's dark, you just can't see what's painted on the road.
It's different for 'slow' or give way markings because your brain knows what it's expecting to see and that's exactly what you see, but for speed limits which change from place to place, this wouldn't be a good idea - unless the powers that be insist on more ballotini in the paint.
I find that road markings are even more difficult to read when there's red anti-skid stuff around them - perhaps easier to read in daylight, but not at night or in wet weather _________________ Andy
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