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GPS_fan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:47 am    Post subject: Microsoft Reply with quote

Whilst I might not be Microsoft's number 1 fan, I feel that I have reason to give them a pat on the back.

With a teenager in the house who spends many hours playing on his X-Box 360, it was a fate worse than death when it failed a couple of weeks ago (and a couple of months outside the 12 month warranty).

Anyway, a quick call to Microsoft (on an 0800 number) and:

1) they arranged to collect it FOC

2) they agreed to repair it FOC

3) they agreed to return it FOC


Having been told that collection could take up to 5 working days and then the repair & return could take up to 21 days, it was great to see the X-Box being picked up by day 2 and it was returned about 10 days after collection....although we'd resigned ourselves to not seeing it before Christmas.

In addition to this, there was a fault/repair report and a 1 month free X-Box Live credit in the box.

If only everything could run as smoothly as this - nice work Microsoft.

According to the fault/repair report, the motherboard and DVD drive were replaced.

....the only problem we had was connecting it back up to the wireless network because the MAC address isn't taken from the wireless adapter (as is usually the case), it's on the ROM on the motherboard, and it took a little detective work to a) find the MAC address and b) determine that it was different to the original address. Having a secure wireless network, the MAC address has to be included in the list of accepted users

My only criticism of Microsoft was that they didn't include a note advising that the MAC address had changed. However, I guess that people not using a secure wireless network wouldn't experience this problem.

now that it's all working again, he's like a pig in muck Laughing
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mostdom
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Considering the huge hole they've dug for themselves with everything else they do, a small step in the right direction seems a bit insignificant, but all the same, I'm glad you got the xbox back in working order.
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PaulB2005
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the MAC address problem only some (more) secure networks need the MAC address assigned to the router before access is granted. Most secure networks don't require this unless the network is specifically set up that way, so it's more a problem caused by your network settings than by MS or the changed MAC code. Probably would have been an idea for MS to mention it but most people don't use the MAC address list settings.

Personally I've found MS customers services to be very good. The problem lies when dealing with Windows PCs. With an XBox the user usually hasn't changed anything so a faulty unit can be easily diagnosed and fixed / replaced.

However with a PC the minute a new PC is switched on all sorts of changes occur. Anti virus is (or isn't installed), programs are added, settings are changed, drivers upgraded, plug ins installed etc... This means the PC and the Operating System are no longer a "known entity". In other words that are a multitude of things the user may have done (inadvertently) to cause a problem with Windows and it can be difficult to rectify those problems. This is where MS gets it's (i feel, somewhat un-deserved) bad name.

Don't get me wrong. I'm NOT a MS fan-boy. There are quite a few things i don't like about MS but i have always found their Customer Services to be very good and supportive.
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mostdom
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PaulB2005 wrote:
...but i have always found their Customer Services to be very good and supportive.


I wish I could mirror your experience. Last time I contacted MS support I already knew what sort of responce I would get, but I hoped I might be suprised. What I got was an alaboration of the expected responce which was no help at all. A sort of "what have you done? Oh my screen says you need to reinstall windows. Yes you will lose all of your files. Sorry!" responce.

Why can't I just get on with Lynux! Smile
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GPS_fan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PaulB2005 wrote:
Regarding the MAC address problem only some (more) secure networks need the MAC address assigned to the router before access is granted. Most secure networks don't require this unless the network is specifically set up that way, so it's more a problem caused by your network settings than by MS or the changed MAC code. Probably would have been an idea for MS to mention it but most people don't use the MAC address list settings.


...but, surely, it is a logical step to take if you have a device like an X-Box connected to your network to make it as secure as possible - apart from anything else, a secure network keeps its name hidden from anybody who shouldn't be accessing your network.

Anyway, it only took a few minutes and this was my only gripe - but I ca't possibly be the only X-Box user to have a secure network and a simple note advising users of the change would be helpful because not everybody is such a wizz as me Rolling Eyes

There's an unsecured network in my neighbourhood and some bright spark called it "GET OFF MY NETWOK" - yes, capital letters. So, to most people, this would act as an invitiation to access that network - talk about naive
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GPSFan
I agree with you about the MAC warning, however and you have probably already realised this, the MAC address is unique to each individual piece of hardware on your network. The hardware does not get the MAC address from the wireless network (router) as you indicated in your first post. (It is the IP address for the device that can be obtained from the router). Whoever set up your wireless network router has applied MAC filtering to it which means that only devices with the specified MAC addresses can access the wireless network. This may be in addition to any encryption etc. that was applied, and is an 'extra' form of security which should prevent other people casually piggy backing your network.
About your original reason for posting: Good show Microsoft. All they say is not true then. Very Happy
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have two problems with Microsoft.

1. They think they know best, so they set up Windows as they see fit for me. In the good old days, when you installed Windows you could then tweak it to behave to your own liking. They've moved on so far now, that I haven't the faintest idea what's going on inside my PC and I don't like that. I've just pressed Ctrl/Alt/Del to find that I have 54 processes running. Surely I don't need all those things gobbling processor resources? But I don't know.

2. MS have for far too long treated us all as Beta testers of apparently completed software - all these updates?? I hate to think how I'd get on if I were to FDisk my PC and reinstall from scratch - I'd spend the next six months waiting for all the updates to download and install!!
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MaFt
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm not keen on microsoft's monopoly BUT you do have to remember that there are literally billions of combinations of hardware and software that they need to make ONE piece of software, windows, work with...

it's hard enough creating a website that looks and operates as it should on, say, 5 different browsers let alone billions!!

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PaulB2005
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
surely, it is a logical step to take if you have a device like an X-Box connected to your network to make it as secure as possible - apart from anything else, a secure network keeps its name hidden from anybody who shouldn't be accessing your network.


True, but as with all security there are levels of Secure Networks. You can off course Hide the SSID, use MAC Address filtering and various other techniques. However you don't need all of these to be Secure. It's a matter of scale.

I deal with (on avergae) 2 home wifi networks a week on average and i've never found one to be using MAC filtering.

There's nothing wrong with it and you are right it's an extra layer of security that costs nothing, but as you found all the extra layers can trip you up occasionally.

Really i was just pointing out that MS probably didn't mention it because the problem doesn't arise all that often...
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GPS_fan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PaulB2005 wrote:
True, but as with all security there are levels of Secure Networks. You can off course Hide the SSID, use MAC Address filtering and various other techniques. However you don't need all of these to be Secure. It's a matter of scale.

I deal with (on avergae) 2 home wifi networks a week on average and i've never found one to be using MAC filtering


I use it all the time - it means that only MY computers can access the network.

'Closed', or secured wireless networks are now recommended because it stops all and sundry connecting to networks and it's such an easy process
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
The hardware does not get the MAC address from the wireless network (router) as you indicated in your first post.


I beg to differ, but I don't wish to start an argument - that should be whole purpose of the wireless adapter having its own MAC address, because this is used for wireless connection, for a cabled connection, the ethernet ID would be required

After all, each ethernet port has its own unique ID address and if you have a computer with multiple ethernet ports, the network DOESN'T take a single address from the computer - it requires one for each port

I've setup more than enough networks, so perhaps it's dyslexic fingers letting me down

The issue is resolved and I'm leaving it at that - if the service was bad, I might still be moaning, but it exceeded expectations
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaFt wrote:
i'm not keen on microsoft's monopoly BUT

Nintendo are unable to supply sufficient Wiiiiii (or should that be Weeee??) consoles and many gamers seem to prefer the X-Box 360 to PlayStation

Personally, I think that Apple should rule the world Laughing
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PaulB2005
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I use it all the time - it means that only MY computers can access the network.


A network secured with a network key but without MAC filtering and with a broadcast SSID is still secure. Just not as secure - like 3 locks on a door instead of 1.
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GPS_fan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A chain is only as strong as the weakest link Crying or Very sad

There is apparently software around which can crack WPA and WEP passwords - but no software can make a hidden network visible...you just have to be looking at exactly the right time when

At the end of the day, it's what you're used to and this is just the way I've always done it....you've obviously done it a different way, which has worked perfectly well for you

Belt and braces....and firewall Laughing
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaFt wrote:
billions of combinations of hardware and software that they need to make ONE piece of software, windows, work with...

That's odd. I thought all the billions had to work with Windows? Remind me - when was the last time MS adapted Windows to work with something other than a new Intel processor? My Windows (XP64) doesn't allow my printers software to work with it - the solution is for my printer manufacturer to write new drivers for my printers, not for MS to make Windows work with HP printers.
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