Home PageFacebookRSS News Feed
PocketGPS
Web
SatNav,GPS,Navigation
MacFixer, the iPhone, iPod, and iPad specialists
Pocket GPS World - SatNavs | GPS | Speed Cameras: Forums

Pocket GPS World :: View topic - Change in UK Law to Render Mobile Database Useless?
 Forum FAQForum FAQ   SearchSearch   UsergroupsUsergroups   ProfileProfile   Log in for private messagesLog in for private messages   Log inLog in 

Change in UK Law to Render Mobile Database Useless?
Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 12, 13, 14  Next
 
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Pocket GPS World Forum Index -> News And Latest Information
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
MaFt
Pocket GPS Staff
Pocket GPS Staff


Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 15258
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 9:56 am    Post subject: Change in UK Law to Render Mobile Database Useless? Reply with quote

As hard as it is to keep the mobile camera database as accurate and up to date as possible, the UK Government seem destined to make it even more difficult. From June 2007 a change in regulations means that police and camera partnerships can site mobile cameras on any road they wish - there no longer needs to have been at least three crashes resulting in death or serious injury in the previous three years.

Cumbria Safety Cameras, as discussed in our forums, are the first to announce their plans to take advantage of the change in regulation. They aim "to create uncertainty in the driver's mind about where cameras will be" by placing mobile sites shortly after static cameras to catch motorist that speed up after passing a known site. No doubt they will also be siting another mobile camera shortly after that one, you know, just in case they speed up again...

Recently the insurance company, Swinton, announced that penalty points gained from speeding would no longer increase premiums as points do not necessarily equate to a high-risk driver. No doubt this change in law will further increase the number of drivers with penalty points.

What does this mean for us? Clearly the mobile camera database will continue to grow but hopefully local safety camera partnerships will make it easy for us by sticking to regular haunts - we can only hope!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
MaFt
Pocket GPS Staff
Pocket GPS Staff


Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 15258
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

West Yorkshire Safety Camera Partnership's official response when asked if they would be taking advantag of the new law allowing them to put cameras anywhere:

Quote:
Site selection criteria that applied at the end of the national safety camera programme, will continue to be applied by West Yorkshire Casualty Reduction Partnership. New camera sites will be selected using an assessment that includes the level of fatal, serious and slight collisions.

Mobile speed camera sites – will continue to be used at sites where collisions are scattered along a length of road or where enforcement is needed at specific times of the day or year. This type of enforcement can also be used to complement fixed enforcement;
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
mostdom
Pocket GPS Moderator
Pocket GPS Moderator


Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Posts: 1964
Location: Surrey, UK.

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This isn't productive as this means there is nothing to stop them from putting a camera on a fast road where there has been no accidents just to to increase the statistics£. There need to be some guide lines at least?

As for points I heard from a IAM member, that some drivers now drive with notices on the back saying "XX points on my licence please pass".

I hope local police see sence and apply these changes responcably. Sad
_________________
Dom

HERE LIES PND May it rest in peace.
Navigon 7310/iPhone Navigon&Copilot
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
GPS_fan
Pocket GPS Moderator
Pocket GPS Moderator


Joined: Jan 04, 2007
Posts: 2789
Location: Hampshire, UK

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have thought, also, that the camera partnerships already know where their goldmines are and they're conceivably less likely to have some guy sitting on a country lane clocking tractors all day.

It sounds to me as though it's just giving the camera partnerships more flexibility to stick cameras in the usual spots.

Some existing accident blackspots aren't visited by camera vans all that often.

If safety is no longer a pre-requisite, they must be able to justify having a camera at a particular place somehow because there are wages and other expenses to pay.

What's the decision-making process behind reversing the direction of Truvelo cameras because there doesn't seem to be any logic to this. One that I pass regularly is usually covered up for several days before changing - but, this time, no covers.


This is just my thinking and I could well be wrong
_________________
Andy
PocketGPSWorld.com supports Help for Heroes - Read here
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Privateer
Pocket GPS Moderator
Pocket GPS Moderator


Joined: 30/12/2002 17:36:20
Posts: 4918
Location: Oxfordshire, England, UK

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaFt wrote:
From June 2007 a change in regulations means that police and camera partnerships can site mobile cameras on any road they wish - there no longer needs to have been at least three crashes resulting in death or serious injury in the previous three years.

I don’t think that it will affect my local camera partnership much as they appear to already use mobile sites with no regard for historical statistics. My local police force TVP (Thames Valley Police) has an official website called SaferRoads. Looking through that website I soon found a mobile site on a road that has had no deaths since records start (1990) and only two personal injures (one in 1992 and one in 1995) – these personal injures may not have been due to excessive speed and there may not even have been a vehicle involved. The details for this mobile site can be seen here.

Regards,
_________________
Robert.
iPhone 6s Plus, iOS 14.0.1: iOS CamerAlert v2.0.7
TomTom GO Mobile iOS 2.3.1; TomTom (UK & ROI and Europe) iOS apps v1.29
Garmin Camper 770 LMT-D
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
worthingsaxovtr
Lifetime Member


Joined: Jun 22, 2005
Posts: 150
Location: worthing

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so it seems that now more than ever we need laser sites in the camera database, including verified and non verified
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
MaFt
Pocket GPS Staff
Pocket GPS Staff


Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 15258
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple more responses:

Hertfordshire:
Quote:
In Hertfordshire we are sticking with the existing criteria for the time being. That is - 2 KSIs in a 3 year period for mobile sites. We still feel it makes sense to concentrate on areas where casualties are happening, although the case made by Cumbria for creating uncertainty amongst drivers about where enforcement is going to be is also a good one, and we await its results with interest.


Cheshire:
Quote:
We have found as a partnership that making cameras visible and placing them in accident blackspots has had a tremendous effect on casualty reduction. We wouldn't want to change that. What we will consider is making more use of a route based approach, whereby longer stretches of road that have casualties may be considered for intervention, which wouldn't necessarily be just enforcement. We will publicise these routes and give drivers all the information they need to make an informed choice about their driving behaviour, if they choose to ignore this information they may well find themselves with a fixed penalty notice or similar.


So, it looks as though things may not be changing too much but it still means there will be a huge increase in mobile locations in the database... great fun..!


Last edited by MaFt on Fri May 18, 2007 11:29 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
GPS_fan
Pocket GPS Moderator
Pocket GPS Moderator


Joined: Jan 04, 2007
Posts: 2789
Location: Hampshire, UK

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My camera partnership won't respond to correspondence, so it's impossible to find out what they're planning.

They won't advise me on the recommended procedure for allowing an emergency vehicle through a junction with a redlight camera, so I very uch doubt that they'll divulge their darkest secrets regarding mobile camera locations.

This is where the government should clamp down and make things universal nationwide, so we all know exactly where we stand - but each police force and camera partnership seems to have a free reign to 'interpret' the rules in any way they see fit
_________________
Andy
PocketGPSWorld.com supports Help for Heroes - Read here
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fordfocus
Occasional Visitor


Joined: Oct 12, 2006
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's just no fun in driving anymore Crying or Very sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
butt
Occasional Visitor


Joined: Jul 19, 2005
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe a FOI request could get the info out of the local bill
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mostdom
Pocket GPS Moderator
Pocket GPS Moderator


Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Posts: 1964
Location: Surrey, UK.

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaFt wrote:
...a huge increase in mobile locations in the database... great fun..!


You almost sound exited. :D

Whoopee, what fun we'll all have together!

ooh! better still, we could have a legue table for the most rediculous and irresponsable mobile locations! Verified of course! Laughing
_________________
Dom

HERE LIES PND May it rest in peace.
Navigon 7310/iPhone Navigon&Copilot
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
GPS_fan
Pocket GPS Moderator
Pocket GPS Moderator


Joined: Jan 04, 2007
Posts: 2789
Location: Hampshire, UK

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Static cameras are usually well marked and clearly visible, whereas mobile cameras are often hidden around a bend behind a signpost...

...which opens up that old debate about whether they're "safety" cameras or a tax on motorists
_________________
Andy
PocketGPSWorld.com supports Help for Heroes - Read here
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Greenglide
Lifetime Member


Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 295
Location: South East Northumberland, UK

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What we could do, of course, is always obey the law!

At the end of the day speed cameras catch people who are breaking the law. We may not like it, it might be deemed as a money making scam, but it is only making money out of people who are breaking the law.

Do we expect burglar alarms only to be fitted to houses that have been broken twice before and has a sign on the gate stating "Burglar Alarm Fitted" - don't think so.

I am not saying that I never break the speed limit but expecting speed cameras to be limited as to where they can be sited is ridiculous. The best solution is to fit a dummy camera in every road sign, lamp post etc so that no-one can tell where they really are.

If everyone was "forced" to stick to the speed limit (even where it is not "necessary") think how many lives would be saved.

Speed limits save lives when obeyed. Cameras can save lives if they get drivers to obey the speed limits. If people have to slow down or get penalty points for speeding anywhere on what grounds are they really complaining?

Can we get real about the two items. Can anybody complain about speed enforcement - I think not. Complaining about enforcement cameras at "safe" places means "I want to excede to speed limit here because it is safe".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GPS_fan
Pocket GPS Moderator
Pocket GPS Moderator


Joined: Jan 04, 2007
Posts: 2789
Location: Hampshire, UK

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed...

...but if you're so busy watching your dashboard to make sure you don't speed - what about the fact that you'll be paying less attention to what's going on around you

...will watching your speedo help you see that child that runs out in front of you??

...will watching your speedo help avoid the deer that jumps out in front of you??


Also, why do motorists get punished so much, when burglars and other people who break the law get away?? EASY - it's targets

It's a hell of a lot easier to catch a motorist with a camera than have to do some real police work to catch a burglar or mugger.

...and how many burglars get a £60 fine for their first offence?? They just get a slap on the wrist!!

...and that's on the rare occasion when they get caught - but for motorists, a camera does all the work
_________________
Andy
PocketGPSWorld.com supports Help for Heroes - Read here
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SimonCatlin
Frequent Visitor


Joined: Jan 11, 2004
Posts: 565
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greenglide wrote:
What we could do, of course, is always obey the law!


Yes we could, but really do you obey every law set in the statute book?

Do you still practice Archery on a Sunday?
_________________
iPhone5, TomTom, Google maps, Navfree, Viewranger and Apple Maps (ekk)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger







Posted: Today    Post subject: Pocket GPS Advertising

Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Pocket GPS World Forum Index -> News And Latest Information All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 12, 13, 14  Next
Page 1 of 14

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Make a Donation



CamerAlert Database

Click here for the PocketGPSWorld.com Speed Camera Database

Download Speed Camera Database
22.105 (30 Oct 24)



WORLDWIDE SPEED CAMERA SPOTTERS WANTED!

Click here to submit camera positions to the PocketGPSWorld.com Speed Camera Database


12mth Subscriber memberships awarded every week for verified new camera reports!

Submit Speed Camera Locations Now


CamerAlert Apps



iOS QR Code






Android QR Code







© Terms & Privacy


GPS Shopping