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Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 6:12 pm Post subject: NOW THE DUST HAS SETTLED
Ok now all the dust has settled following the v 5.0 and map upgrade how do I feel.
Well a bit miffed that yet again I purchase a product one month before a new version is announced, but hey, what’s new I always seem to do that, cameras, cars, it makes no difference, as soon as I buy, the new version is announced. But still I like the product and it works for me.
And then the new v 5.0 software – all that we have been asking for, what a customer focused company – and when it comes am I disappointed, no I like the functionality, the route demo, great and all the other bits, wonderful – but I still get a bad feeling seeing all the grayed out areas that I could have had for less pounds in the new version., still never mind the new maps are coming, this GPS thing is really exciting.
And then they came – new maps – new maps ? – well some changes, more road names, but no sign of the new roads. What a let down, I read all the comments in the forum, now understand all the reasons for delays in publishing new roads, here what Mike the GPS guru says, but I can’t help still feeling disappointed and let down. This great product, this great customer centric company, has disappointed me, I just can’t help it. But one consolation, I do like the post code function, but I am hearing that it isn’t accurate, oh please not that now.
But never mind, the product works, think back to the maps and paper instruction days, this is still a great product and I will stick with it. But one thing – Tom Tom – listen to the comments from this forum – it’s a great gauge of customer feeling.
Joined: 20/08/2002 11:51:57 Posts: 3859 Location: Essex, UK
Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 7:44 pm Post subject:
I can assure you that TomTom do read this forum, and not just the TomTom forums either. They do take notice of your comments though it may not seem like it to us users.
As far as I am concerned the only thing that TomTom has done wrong is in managing people's expectations. There is often a breakdown in communications. A typical example is the release of 5.10 software today. There was no indication that it was going to be released, we had no forwarning, we were not told what had been changed in it. We were aware that new software was going to be available soon as we are testing the 500/700 software but no dates had been mentioned.
This seems to be a common failing. Announcements are made, and people's expectations are raised, but when the goods are received then they don't always measure up to the marketing surrounding them. That however is the same with everything though. I am well known as a "gadget man" and have learnt over the years to manage my expectations.
I think that the big failing for the mapping data was understanding what your expectations (as new users of GPS devices) were. For people who have used the navigation devices for a number of years it was exactly what I was expecting. I am ever hopeful that the newer maps would be include roads built more recently, but experience has shown me otherwise.
This makes me think that maybe we are partly to blame, maybe we could have described the map creation process better for you guys. There are plenty of articles such as the Navteq visit, and numerous forum discussions about this.
I think it is more the fact that GPS has moved from being a "specialist field" into being a mainstream consumer product. Devices like the GO and the Navman iCNs and the Mios, and a whole host of PNDs herald this fact. The problem is that the companies are having to adjust to the switch as well. Where we have experience and history in the "specialist field" this doesn't transfer well into the consumer arena. Essentially it is a learning experience for all of us, and one that will continue.
It may help ease frustrations by criticising and complaining about products, procedures, support etc, but at the end of the day it is not constructive. What mow has done here is to analyse his experiences objectively once the "dust has settled" ignoring the hype and criticisms and come to a conclusion:
mow wrote:
This great product, this great customer centric company, has disappointed me, I just can’t help it. But one consolation, I do like the post code function, but I am hearing that it isn’t accurate, oh please not that now.
But never mind, the product works, think back to the maps and paper instruction days, this is still a great product and I will stick with it. But one thing – Tom Tom – listen to the comments from this forum – it’s a great gauge of customer feeling.
I think we have learnt some lessons from our experiences since CeBIT when this all started. I hope that TomTom has as well.
I also believe that being positive about things is a far more constructive way of moving things forward than being negative. Sure there are things that could have been handled better, and next time I am sure they will be. But I think that the bottom line is that with Version 5.0 (sorry V5.1 was just sneaked out) and the V5 maps the GO has moved forward in a great leap. There are far more things to be positive about than negative, it is just human nature to focus on the negative rather than the positive.
I am already starting to think beyond the GO500 and GO700 to the version 6 software. No, I dint have any inside knowledge TomTom are still working on V5 stuff. _________________ Mike Barrett
Excellent post, just about sums this whole saga up perfectly. TomTom have gone from heroes to villans in a few weeks, but the fact is even though there are some serious customer service failings they are still offering us a great product, which will continue to get better, I think people expect a diiference in the magnitude of going from a paper map to sat nav every time a new release is announced, which as we all know won't and more importantly can't happen. So as you pointed out there are more positives than negatives and its time to concentrate on those but as you also said its human nature to not be satisfied. _________________ TOMTOM MOBILE 5
NOKIA N70
Globalsat BT-338 Receiver
The main matter still remains.
They release a new map every year, if there wasn't that much to update they could have said "sorry its going to be delayed, there is nothing to update" but no they release a map that essentially hasn't been updated much in the last year and sell it on the strength of the postcode search.
Either tomtom aren't updating the input from teleatlas or teleatlas are just bone idle, their job is to update the maps, if thats not being done, they aren't doing their job.
You don't pay a mechanic if he goes to lunch instead of fixing your car.
The main matter still remains.
They release a new map every year, if there wasn't that much to update they could have said "sorry its going to be delayed, there is nothing to update" but no they release a map that essentially hasn't been updated much in the last year and sell it on the strength of the postcode search.
Either tomtom aren't updating the input from teleatlas or teleatlas are just bone idle, their job is to update the maps, if thats not being done, they aren't doing their job.
You don't pay a mechanic if he goes to lunch instead of fixing your car.
I quite understand your frustration, my expectations were as high as anyone else’s, but surely its time we moved on now. If, as Mike says, Tom Tom read the forum they will have learnt that they have not managed the expectations of their customers at all well, indeed they may have lost some for good. However let’s now use this opportunity to alter future behavior by concentrating on influencing the content of the next upgrade. I look forward to Mike visit in August and the topic thread to create a user agenda.
Joined: Jul 27, 2004 Posts: 86 Location: Midlands, UK
Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 11:23 pm Post subject:
I think my frustration has come from experience with previous (Garmin) GPS devices.
The upgrade from Garmin CS5 (2002) to CS6 (2003) brought the maps right up to date. The update was FREE as well. Yep, read that again, FREE.
I then bought the TTG and found the maps to be hopeless. Worse than CS5 (2002). The TTG upgrade was £62 and is STILL worse than the CS5.
I have stepped backwards when I moved to Tomtom. I have then paid to stay well behind what I left behind with Garmin.
I'm sorry, but whatever platitudes I read, the fact remains. Furthermore, my query to Tomtom about this has gone unanswered for a week.
They took my money, provided rubbish, and don't want to answer my question about this. I just don't buy the line "well, it takes ages to get maps up to date" when the old Garmin maps ARE significantly more up to date, and are now 2 years old. Especially in Scotland, the country Teleatlas seem to have lost.
I know that my next GPS will not be a Tomtom, and will not hold teleatlas maps. It will use Navteq, and will probably be a Garmin.
My choice, and I suspect the choice of many others.
I know I have lost my money, it's not much, but it sure as hell leaves a bitter taste for a long long time.
But after all guys it's a buyers market if a company does the dirt on it's customers like TomTom have with there's then in my oppinion they should be hung out to dry.
Moderators dont make excuses for TomTom they are in this business to make money and survive in the real world, they know what they have done and if they are feeling sorry for anyone, it's themselves for not getting away with the Scam.
I am in the oppinion that Tom Tom are a victim of there own success and have been complacent and layed back thinking they have a captive audience, this is not so, as they will find out if they do not do the right thing for it's customers.
I for one will not buy any map upgrades, until this company have the common decency to inform it's customers what has been updated and was hasn't.
This has left a bitter taste in my mouth, but as you say it's time to move on and put this behind us.
Joined: Jul 27, 2004 Posts: 86 Location: Midlands, UK
Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 7:50 pm Post subject:
Update:
My "question" on the support website expressing my huge disappointment with the "upgrade" has just been moved to "Answered". It said that because I had not responded to the reply in 48 hours then they consider the question "Answered".
Except they made NO REPLY!!!! No email, and nothing in the "thread".
Joined: Nov 17, 2004 Posts: 368 Location: Kettering, Northants, England
Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 8:06 pm Post subject:
MikeB wrote:
I am already starting to think beyond the GO500 and GO700 to the version 6 software. No, I dint have any inside knowledge TomTom are still working on V5 stuff.
Thank you mike for your information and setting out the case.. It seem like WE the customer are wrong again
Fancy us expecting to order a product and expect it to arrive within a reasonable time of ordering and payment being deducted from credit cards ..
Fancy us to expect that as the product was described as an upgrade to the mapping system and find that the maps are hardly unchanged..
And even worse that we have paid out hundreds of pounds only to find that the product is now obsolete and the company are working "Beyond 500 and 700"
That I don't mind as much as all companies have to develop - but they should look after their existing customer base - and those who have purchased recently what was being offered as the latest technology.
The trouble is that we HAVE paid out hundreds of pounds and cant afford to get out of the loop and that TT have us by what is commonly known as the "short and curly's" _________________ Happy to meet -- Sorry to part -- Happy to meet again
i bought the GB SD card upgrade, tried to cancel at the time and they said they couldn't. It arrived over a week ago now and i am now in the process of sending it back to get a full refund. I am surprised at a few of the peoples posts that they were unhappy with the product, why haven't they just sent it back for a refund?
to be honest my reason for sending it back was not for the quality of map, just that i ordered the wrong upgrade (GB only instead of MOWE). It is also unopened which perhaps may be the difference.
And even worse that we have paid out hundreds of pounds only to find that the product is now obsolete and the company are working "Beyond 500 and 700"
As you say all successful companies will continually strive to update and improve their products utilising the latest technologies and there has to be a cut off time when the new is announced and the old has to sell out. Inevitably there will be customers (like myself) that purchase the old product just before the launch of the new. That’s life. You made the decision to purchase on the basis of the functionality at the time, you thought it would meet your needs and went ahead.
This behavior is not exclusive to Tom Tom, ever bought a car, new computer, mobile phone, the list is endless, before you can say “short and curly’s” they are out of date. And try asking for a new free upgrade for a BMW !!!
Not quite true is it that the "classic" is obsolete. With the v 5.1 soft wear it has enhanced functionality and will get you to your destination as well as the new versions. Surley the provision of a free upgrade is looking after their existing customers
As for the maps, I totally agree that Tom Tom has not met our expectations and should indeed take to task Teleatlas on the lack of introduction of new roads (especially with the performance of other mappers) . May be the suggestion of a free "next upgrade" to those dissappointed with the latest maps will be considered.
Joined: 20/08/2002 11:51:57 Posts: 3859 Location: Essex, UK
Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 9:21 am Post subject:
Fibre wrote:
And even worse that we have paid out hundreds of pounds only to find that the product is now obsolete and the company are working "Beyond 500 and 700"
I think that either I didnt explain myself properly, or you have misread my sentance.
This is nothing to do with TomTom, this is me personally. All I am saying is that version 5 is here now, and I am looking towards version 6. This is not precluding or implying obsolesence anywhere. Obviously without bluetooth the Original GO cannot use some of the new features, but that doesnt mean it cannot run Version 6, 7 or whatever software if it becomes available. _________________ Mike Barrett
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 8:51 pm Post subject:
mow wrote:
ever bought a car, new computer, mobile phone, the list is endless, before you can say “short and curly’s” they are out of date. And try asking for a new free upgrade for a BMW !!!
You are talking about hardware not software.
I have had the software on my computer and mobile phone upgraded for free many times. _________________ Gone fishing!
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