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Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am Post subject: Navigator map errors
Thanks Chris, I'll contact TomTom and get the replacement CD sent out. Sounds like TomTom are having a few problems. Strangely enough I've just purchased Navigator myself and that was shipped with the same 1.20 CD, not original but the updated CD I received.
Joined: 19/08/2002 23:00:11 Posts: 12 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am Post subject: Navigator map errors
Glad its not just me having these problems. My street and my mothers street are both missing. My girlfriends parents town(Bampton,Devon) is missing as is my fathers town(Bodmin. The first four addresses I tried to locate are all missing as seems to be many towns in Somerset, Devon and especialy Cornwall. Does not give me much confidence, shame as the interface is fantastic.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am Post subject: Navigator map errors
Mark, have you got some other streets you can email me which either aren't shown on the map altogether, or are but not listed in the database. The article is very close now to being released.
Joined: 10/09/2002 17:13:17 Posts: 176 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am Post subject: Navigator map errors
Different Mark here!
One thing I've noticed is that if a route needs you to double back on yourself at a roundabout, it will say something like "turn left at the roundabout, fourth exit". Obviously it's not left, it's right (if anything), but it's as if the software is a few degrees out when it sees entrance and exit as the same (i.e. it sees 360 degrees as < 180 degrees). The route drawn on the map is correct.
I haven;t worked out if this is specific to certain locations, or always happens, but I've noticed it on the M27 (I think it was the Whitely junction, coming FROM the east and doubling back to go TO the east), at several roundabouts in London, and yesterday on a roundabout on the A13 (I made a mental note of which one, but promptly forgot - sorry).
Mark _________________ If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
Joined: 25/08/2002 18:13:54 Posts: 24 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am Post subject: Navigator map errors
Mark R Penn said: One thing I've noticed is that if a route needs you to double back on yourself at a roundabout, it will say something like "turn left at the roundabout, fourth exit". Obviously it's not left, it's right (if anything)
Hmmm! methinks you your're looking at the plan view and using its iterpretation of turning right - As we all know, we should always turn left off of roundabouts in the UK or so I thought! - without trying to sound condesending it means that as you approach the "Forth Exit" you should turn left, else I hope I never meet you on the same roundabout where you're trying to turn right while I'm turning left!! Ha! Ha!
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am Post subject: Navigator map errors
Mark, I haven't heard it as "Turn left at the roundabout 4th exit", I usually get "Go around the roundabout, 4th Exit". It sounds like it could be that roundabout that isn't recorded correct for voice navigation, there's 2 roundabouts I go over, 1 doesn't show on the map (which is 3 years old), and the other is a roundabout and a large one at that, but I get no voice info for it.
Joined: 10/09/2002 17:13:17 Posts: 176 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am Post subject: Navigator map errors
Laser,
Well no, that's not right (no punn intended!!). The instruction is "After 300 yards, turn left AT the roundabout, fourth exit" not "After 300 yards, turn left FROM the roundabout, fourth exit". If you aproach a roundabout from the south for example, and need to go east, it will tell you (correctly) to turn right. If however you aproach from the same direction, but need to go back towards the south, it tells you to go left!!
When you give directions to someone, do you really say "aproach the roundabout, head for the fourth exit, and then turn left"? I think not. You would say "head for the roundabout, and turn right taking the fourth exit".
Following your logic, the instruction would be "turn left" (entrance to roundabout)> "Bear right (to pass exit 1)"> "Bear right" (to pass exit 2)> "Bear right" (to pass exit 3)> "Turn left" (to exit) Citymaps used to do that, and it was totally confusing. It was corrected in Navigator, just not for the situation I described.
It should be a given that we all know to turn left to exit a roundabout.
You may hope you wont meet me on a roundabout, but you're safe because if I'm following your directions I'll never get there anyway!!!
Dave,
Yes, most times it will say "cross", but sometimes it says "turn left" correctly, sometimes it says "turn right" correctly, and sometimes it says "go left" as I described.
Turn right or turn left can sometimes be a bit difficult if there are more than 4 exits, or if they are not layed out exactly as the points on a compass (i.e. at 90 degrees to each other), so I can understand it useing cross in place of left or right, but it should never say left when you're going around by more than 180 degrees!!
Perhaps for consistency it should ALWAYS say cross the roundabout (and forget left and right), and give an exit number.
Mark _________________ If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
Joined: 10/09/2002 17:13:17 Posts: 176 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am Post subject: Navigator map errors
Actually Dave, you could be correct, and it never says "right", just "around" - I'll have to listen out for it, but never the less it is just plain wrong to tell someone to go left AT a roundabout when you want them to go all the way around it!
Mark _________________ If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
Joined: 26/09/2002 08:03:29 Posts: 75 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am Post subject: Navigator map errors
Dave,
It looks like some areas of water are being filled in by land and where this happens it obliterates any road bridges, i.e. the Menai bridge and the A5 in my report.
Joined: 25/08/2002 18:13:54 Posts: 24 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am Post subject: Navigator map errors
Well to be honest all I ever say to anyone that I give directions to is "when you get to the roundabout take the forth exit" saying to someone bear right at the 1st, 2nd and 3rd exits not only gets confusing but the distances between exits is so small that the GPS may not always be able to update as quickly as needed. For example what would happen if you came to a roundabout such as there is in Hemel Hemptstead where there are multiple roundabouts within a main roundabout?.... a GPS with a two second update rate has difficulty keeping up with rapid changes of direction and multiple turns. So as you say it would be nice to have consistancy but if you know that the software has these little anomolies then the simple answer is to ignore the direction instruction when coming into a roundabout and note only the command to take a particular exit whether it be the 1st or 4th, that way you wont be confused at to which direction the heading and turn should be.
Joined: 10/09/2002 17:13:17 Posts: 176 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am Post subject: Navigator map errors
Quote: Originally posted by La§er on 26 September 2002Well to be honest all I ever say to anyone that I give directions to is "when you get to the roundabout take the forth exit" saying to someone bear right at the 1st, 2nd and 3rd exits not only gets confusing but the distances between exits is so small that the GPS may not always be able to update as quickly as needed. For example what would happen if you came to a roundabout such as there is in Hemel Hemptstead where there are multiple roundabouts within a main roundabout?.... a GPS with a two second update rate has difficulty keeping up with rapid changes of direction and multiple turns. So as you say it would be nice to have consistancy but if you know that the software has these little anomolies then the simple answer is to ignore the direction instruction when coming into a roundabout and note only the command to take a particular exit whether it be the 1st or 4th, that way you wont be confused at to which direction the heading and turn should be.
Yessss, that's exactly what I said!!!
There is no reason at all why I should have to ignore any part of any instruction. If it's giving an instruction that I should ignore (eg "go left" when it means "go around"), it's the programme, not me, that's wrong, and it shouldn't have given the instruction in the first place, full stop.
The "simple answer" as you put it is NOT for users to adjust to anomolies in the programme (that way nothing ever improves), IT IS for TomTom to correct it!!!
Dave is correct. Unless they can make it consistent and foolproof, TomTom need to do away with the "go left" and "go right" instructions at roundabouts altogether, and just do what you, and I, would do - say "take the Nth exit at the roundabout", and that's what I would like him to include in his article, if he chooses to.
Mark
_________________ If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am Post subject: Navigator map errors
La§er, those Hemel Hempstead roundabouts are a nightmare! I approached them thinking, oh my god, what do I do ? That was without a GPS device though! Felt like being in a foreigh country driving <>
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