Home PageFacebookRSS News Feed
PocketGPS
Web
Read the current newsletter! Weekly
Newsletter
SatNav,GPS,Navigation
Pocket GPS World - SatNavs | GPS | Speed Cameras: Forums

Pocket GPS World :: View topic - Driver With Laser Jammer Prosecuted
 Forum FAQForum FAQ   SearchSearch   UsergroupsUsergroups   ProfileProfile   Log in for private messagesLog in for private messages   Log inLog in 

Driver With Laser Jammer Prosecuted
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Pocket GPS World Forum Index -> Non-Technical Speed Camera Discussions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
RobBrady
Pocket GPS Staff
Pocket GPS Staff


Joined: Jul 21, 2004
Posts: 2717
Location: Chelmsford, UK

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:14 am    Post subject: Driver With Laser Jammer Prosecuted Reply with quote

pocketgpsworld.com
Get Speed Camera Warnings For SatNavs
Get Speed Camera Warnings For iOS (iPhone and iPad)
Get Speed Camera Warnings For Android (phones and tablets)

A driver who fitted his BMW with a laser speed camera blocker has been prosecuted.

Ironically, it was a speed camera image that identified the device which was fitted under his number plate.

North Yorkshire Police officers attempted to read the driver's speed with a mobile speed camera, but found they were unable to do so. When the image from the camera was examined, the laser jammer was spotted.

Ben Kitto, 41, from Scarborough was ordered to pay over 2,200 following his admission to both speeding and attempting to pervert the course of justice. He also received five points on his licence, a two month prison sentence suspended for twelve months and ordered to do 100 hours of unpaid work.

The investigating officer commented: "Kitto believed that he was above the law and didn't think he should have to abide by the speed limit, like everyone else. His deliberate action to pervert the course of justice by fitting this type of device to his vehicle, clearly shows his disregard for the law and the safety of other road users."

Source
email icon

_________________
Robert Brady
Editor, Pocket GPS World
The Premier GPS / SatNav Resource for News, Reviews and Forums
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
jobsworth
Lifetime Member


Joined: Oct 03, 2007
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:33 am    Post subject: Speed Camera and Laser Jammer Reply with quote

Great news for North Yorkshire Police and to see that using a product like a laser jammer can attract a charge of 'Perversing the course of Justice'. Defendant agreed and pleaded guilty. Hope this sends a message to all those contemplating similar that their attempts will not be tolerated.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wingphil
Occasional Visitor


Joined: Mar 28, 2006
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is easy to see this as a positive, but where does this end.
Charging someone with perverting the course of justice when they are trying to protect themselves is dangerous.
Everybody should have the right to freedom to protect themselves, whether from physical assault or from accusations. To take that right away is dangerous, where will it end.
Taken to extreme, if you drop a cigerette but, or a piece of litter, and are seen should you be prosecuted for attempting to pervert justice because you knew it was wrong and you did not report yourself? Or if a warden asks you and you say it was not you do you then get a fine and taken to court for perverting the course of justice?

We can all agree littering is wrong, as indeed we can see a lot of things are wrong, but perverting the course of justice should be used when someone does something like fabricating evidence to protect someone else.

It is the small rights that allow us peasents the freedom we have to be more than a chattel belonging to the land, and a lord of the manor. Defendong ourselves is a very important one.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sussamb
Pocket GPS Verifier
Pocket GPS Verifier


Joined: Mar 18, 2011
Posts: 4324
Location: West Sussex

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems reasonable to me, and some of your suggestions aren't 'perverting the course of justice', including your suggestion about littering Rolling Eyes . The actual offence is covered below and seems entirely reasonable to me.

Perverting the Course of Justice:

28.Perverting the course of justice is a serious offence. It can only be tried on indictment and carries a maximum sentence of life imprisonment. The offence is committed where a person:

does an act (a positive act or series of acts is required; mere inaction is insufficient);

which has a tendency to pervert; and

which is intended to pervert the course of public justice.

29.The course of justice includes the police investigation of a possible crime (it is not necessary for legal proceedings to have begun). A false allegation which risks the arrest or wrongful conviction of an innocent person is enough. The word pervert can mean "alter" but the behaviour does not have to go that far - any act that interferes with an investigation or causes it to head in the wrong direction may tend to pervert the course of justice. All the prosecution needs to prove is that there is a possibility that what the complainant has done "without more" might lead to a wrongful consequence, such as the arrest of an innocent person (Murray (1982) 75 Cr. App. R. 58).

30.Intention is not the same as motive. However, the motive of the complainant is likely to be important if the public interest stage is reached. The prosecution must prove an intention either to pervert the course of justice or to do something which, if achieved, would pervert the course of justice. All that is necessary is proof of knowledge of all the circumstances, and the intentional doing of an act which has a tendency, when objectively viewed, to pervert the course of justice.

31.Where the prosecution case is that a false allegation has been made, all that is required is that the person making the false allegation intended that it should be taken seriously by the police. It is not necessary to prove that she / he intended that anyone should actually be arrested (Cotter [2002] 2 Cr. App. R. 762).
_________________
Where there's a will ... there's a way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DennisN
Tired Old Man
Tired Old Man


Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14770
Location: Keynsham

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wingphil wrote:
Everybody should have the right to freedom to protect themselves, whether from physical assault or from accusations. To take that right away is dangerous, where will it end.

So next time a policeman stops me, I can draw my valiant sword and defend myself against being accused of anything he might be thinking of accusing me of.
_________________
Dennis

If it tastes good - it's fattening.

Two of them are obesiting!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DeLorean
Lifetime Member


Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 307
Location: Basingstoke UK

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can see the video the police speed camera recorded on YouTube.
The little light coloured box under the number plate is the laser jammer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noMTuWW9HCI
_________________
🔸🔸 Currently using TomTom GO 940 & Locus Map 🔸🔸
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Privateer
Pocket GPS Moderator
Pocket GPS Moderator


Joined: 30/12/2002 17:36:20
Posts: 4829
Location: Oxfordshire, England, UK

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wingphil wrote:
Charging someone with perverting the course of justice when they are trying to protect themselves is dangerous.
Everybody should have the right to freedom to protect themselves, whether from physical assault or from accusations. To take that right away is dangerous, where will it end..

The best way, which is also the easiest and cheapest, is to not speed.

You can also legally use a speed camera database such as PGPSW's in a lot of countries to warn you of dangerous locations.

However, fitting a laser jammer to your car and getting caught using it must surely be akin to going equipped to do a crime.

Regards,
_________________
Robert.
iPhone 6s Plus, iOS 14.0.1: iOS CamerAlert v2.0.7
TomTom GO Mobile iOS 2.3.1; TomTom (UK & ROI and Europe) iOS apps v1.29
Garmin Camper 770 LMT-D
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
DennisN
Tired Old Man
Tired Old Man


Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14770
Location: Keynsham

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much does that laser jammer costs? Equivalent to how many years' subscription to the PGPSW database? Ten to fifteen years?
_________________
Dennis

If it tastes good - it's fattening.

Two of them are obesiting!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DeLorean
Lifetime Member


Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 307
Location: Basingstoke UK

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interestingly laser jammers are 100% legal in the UK Shocked
This guy was charged with "attempting to pervert the course of justice" and speeding, but not for owning and/or installing a laser jammer.
The devices appear to only temporarily jam the speed gun allowing you time to adjust your speed (giving you a second chance) before another speed reading is allowed to be taken successfully by the speed gun.
http://www.sasmobile.co.uk/NewsArticle/Police-Laser-Jammer-Fitted
_________________
🔸🔸 Currently using TomTom GO 940 & Locus Map 🔸🔸
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pko
Occasional Visitor


Joined: Nov 10, 2003
Posts: 53
Location: norfolk uk

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the jammer was doing it's job, how could the police prove that he was speeding? If they only estimated that he was speeding, why use a speed gun in the first place?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
sussamb
Pocket GPS Verifier
Pocket GPS Verifier


Joined: Mar 18, 2011
Posts: 4324
Location: West Sussex

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Couple of ways. They could have failed the first time but not on a second attempt. Or they could simply have reverted to measuring time and distance to calculate his speed. He also admitted it Very Happy
_________________
Where there's a will ... there's a way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wingphil
Occasional Visitor


Joined: Mar 28, 2006
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting the number of critisms of my statement, but we all have differant opinions. I am not defending the speeding, or the radar detector, just his right to do something to protect himself, without affecting anyone else. Remember he was not the only guy speeding that day, he also did nor speed every day.
Its only the charge of perverting the course of justice that i feel is wrong.

So, anyway, how did this guy pervert the course of justice. He used a device that stopped the radar getting a fix on him.

He did not attempt to alter the course of an investigation, but did try to prevent one occouring. Hence the extreeme example of littering, where the potental offender tried to prevent an investigation occouring.

In the example given where someone suggested a sword, i imagine there are cases where that might be appropriate. Ask black americans how they are treated, and shot, for little or no reason i am sure one of them would feel justified if he had been shot and was left to bleed to death.
But no one will dispute that defending yourself with appropriate force is reasonable against a mugger, so why not against a verbal assault by a bully, or police officer, the only real question is what is appropriate force, from saying no to actual physical contact.

I saw a tv program supporting police officers the other day, the cooper shoved a member of the public at least a dozen times, first time the member of the public touched the officers flak jacket he was arrested for assault. Is that right?

We like to believe police over here are honest. But hillsborough proves that not all are, in fact it proves that the rank and file officers will falisfy documents if asked. Read the public enquiry report if you feel that statement is wrong. And there are plenty of other examples, stefan kishko would agree if he had not died shortly after being released from prison after 20 years for a crime the police admit they withheld evidence for, evidence that proved he was innocent. And the miners.


Have any of them been charged with perverting the course of justice? No, retired on full pension. Not much of a penalty

People like to forget that police officers are average joes, no better or worse that everyone around them. Some good some bad. So they, and the criminal system will make mistakes, it is up to the public at large to critisise the bad decisions and to help real justice be administered.

That sounds like an anti police jibe, its not, but any large organisation needs checks and balances to keep things on the level. Without the police we would be in serious trouble, but that does not mean we have to bow and scrape. Instead we should work to help the police become better at what we want them to do- protect the weak against injustice, protect the innocent from the guilty and become alround good guys, not willingly let them become wise guys.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sussamb
Pocket GPS Verifier
Pocket GPS Verifier


Joined: Mar 18, 2011
Posts: 4324
Location: West Sussex

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow you sure have a chip on your shoulder. How do you know the guy didn't speed every day? If he didnt do it regularly why have the detector?

As for police officers pushing people away that's a technique to prevent someone being charged with assaulting them, clearly on the occasion you mention the person continued and didn't take the hint so was arrested.

Yes there have been some miscarriages of justice in the past, but on the occasion you quoted the guy was speeding and was trying to pervert the course of justice. Nuff said Twisted Evil
_________________
Where there's a will ... there's a way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
The Other Tired Old Man


Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 10095
Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strange that they had to blur out the numberplate in the video clip. That would suggest to me that the jammer wasn't working 'properly' anyway.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
The Other Tired Old Man


Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 10095
Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wingphil wrote:
I am not defending the speeding, or the radar detector, just his right to do something to protect himself, without affecting anyone else.
That's absolute garbage. That's akin to Mr. burgaler wearing a mask and hoodie
Quote:
Its only the charge of perverting the course of justice that i feel is wrong.
But that's exacty what he was attempting to do. He was attempting to avoid being caught speeding.
Quote:
{Snip} the only real question is what is appropriate force, from saying no to actual physical contact.
Obviously laser jammers are excessive in this instance
Now go hug a tree. Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message







Posted: Today    Post subject: Pocket GPS Advertising

Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Pocket GPS World Forum Index -> Non-Technical Speed Camera Discussions All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Powered by phpBB 2.0.11 © 2001 phpBB Group
phpBB port v2.1 based on Tom Nitzschner's phpbb2.0.6 upgraded to phpBB 2.0.4 standalone was developed and tested by:
ArtificialIntel, ChatServ, mikem,
sixonetonoffun and Paul Laudanski (aka Zhen-Xjell).

Version 2.1 by Nuke Cops 2003 http://www.nukecops.com

Make a Donation



CamerAlert Database

Click here for the PocketGPSWorld.com Speed Camera Database

Download Speed Camera Database
18.121 (02 Dec 20)



WORLDWIDE SPEED CAMERA SPOTTERS WANTED!

Click here to submit camera positions to the PocketGPSWorld.com Speed Camera Database


12mth Subscriber memberships awarded every week for verified new camera reports!

Submit Speed Camera Locations Now


CamerAlert Apps



iOS QR Code






Android QR Code







Terms & Privacy


GPS Shopping