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HD Traffic quality
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sixhundred
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To give the other point of view.

This morning the TT routed me the same way up the M3. I heard of a major accident at the top of the motorway which was causing long tailbacks but wasn't on the TT as it was 75 miles away. If TT had picked it up no doubt I'd have gone another way, probably the A3.

However, by the time I got the the snarl up it had cleared. So in this instance the traffic horizon was fine. Going the other way, via the A3 is quite a lot further and in this case staying on the M3 was the best route.

Swings and roundabouts.
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matthewj
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sixhundred wrote:
To give the other point of view.

[snip] So in this instance the traffic horizon was fine.[snip]
Swings and roundabouts.


No one is saying that some incidents do indeed clear. This is indeed normal. I used to set off at 8am and watch the traffic in Birmingham go all slow, and then go all clear again. I knew it was peak time, and I could take account of it. That's I as in me, the human in charge. However, there are times when I know that there are special conditions, and I could watch to see that Birmingham was staying slow after peak time, and was very unlikely to clear, and in that situation I could decide to avoid, or not.

The horizon is about letting the driver know the information available, and letting the driver decide what to do about it. Well, actually it is about TomTom not being able to handle the data on their cellular contract, but the effect is to hide information that could be useful to long distance travellers, and to take the decision out of their hands until potentially too late.
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What matthewj is saying is that HE wants the option to decide whether or not to judge the importance of an incident. He is perfectly capable of doing so (and no doubt realises that he can guess wrong too). But TomTom are not giving him the tools for the job, even though they have sold them to him and even though they have them still available. TomTom have decided to make the decision for him and he's not happy about that, when he paid good money to get the information in order to exercise his own judgement. TomTom keep telling him that on average, traffic jams clear up inside 40 minutes. Matthew knows that, I know it, you know it, we ALL know it. But that's no reason either to A) discount the existence of a traffic jam or B) EVERY time plod on regardless in the hope that the distant jam will clear - TomTom are doing both of those on our behalf because they have decided that is best for us. And they still market HD Traffic as being the (complete) answer to all our traffic problems.

I'm with matthew on this.
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Daggers
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The trouble is that when there's been a serious accident, and the police have to close the road (or several lanes), the delay is invariably present for longer than their 40 minute average. If the delay itself is only 5 minutes, then you can probably live with it, but if it's going to be an hour or more, then you want to look for an alternative.

Now, the majority of delays that appear on Tomtom are probably 5 minutes or less. Surely it's not beyond the wit of man (or TomTom) to introduce some conditions into the process - if a delay on your route is more than (say) 15 minutes, then always notify of it, regardless of the distance ahead. If the delay is less than 15 minutes, then take the distance into account.

This wouldn't have a relatively small impact on the network load, and would resolve a lot of the complaints!
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Graeme2812
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's to the point for me now that during peak times HD Traffic is going down and not coming back up again. It's happened twice this morning. I mean right now it is showing as connected and "up-to-date" but there is not a single issue within range. (including Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen). This is contrary to what the TomTom Traffic website is saying. My RDS unit sitting next to me is actually more accurate and reliable when I'm calling upon the service.

After some severe weather a few weeks ago I sat on the A90 in stationary traffic whilst the road was closed. Sat there for a good 30min and not once did an 'incident' flash up 1) on approach or 2) whilst sat stationary on the road. Have also has experiences where delays are showing which transpire to be a perfectly clear road.

Add to this the fact TomTom don't see it appropriate to provide Scotland or Wales with any of the enriched data such road closures, restrictions, roadworks, general warnings that are included in other parts of the UK (For the same subscription price) has made me now seriously consider no longer continuing with their devices in the future when the subscription expires.

The problem is I've so far struggled to see any good working examples of Garmin's 3D traffic or Navigon's Premium TMC (I assume they don't have a traffic page like TomTom do) and none of the retailers seem to have working devices.
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does HD Traffic cover Scotland/Wales at all?
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Graeme2812
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does, and I take the point I believe you are trying to make. (That there is no condition on the quality of coverage, simply that coverage of sorts is in place).

I accept that.
But this fact for me is simply another reason why I don't feel it provides me with value for money. I am paying the same subscription charges as those in other parts of the country who receive an enhanced service. We know the enriched data is available, but for what ever reason they feel it not appropriate to deliver it too all their customers.

Do I have a feeling of being hard done by to an extent?

I would have to say yes.
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graeme2812 wrote:
It does, and I take the point I believe you are trying to make. (That there is no condition on the quality of coverage, simply that coverage of sorts is in place).
No. I was under the obvious hearsay mis-aprehention that there was no HD Traffic coverage in Scotland at all.
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sixhundred
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graeme2812 wrote:
It does, and I take the point I believe you are trying to make. (That there is no condition on the quality of coverage, simply that coverage of sorts is in place).

I accept that.
But this fact for me is simply another reason why I don't feel it provides me with value for money. I am paying the same subscription charges as those in other parts of the country who receive an enhanced service. We know the enriched data is available, but for what ever reason they feel it not appropriate to deliver it too all their customers.

Do I have a feeling of being hard done by to an extent?

I would have to say yes.


I was totally unaware that some parts of the UK had lesser quality cover. Most of my driving is in the South Of England which is well covered (plenty of data) however I sometimes drive to Edinburgh and haven't noticed any issues. Will certainly watch out for this.
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PaulB2005
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in Durham now and i can see incidents in Edinburgh on the B704.

TT Live Traffic Website shows incidents all the way up to Aberdeen.
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Froggy
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actual TRAFFIC coverage in Scotland - at least in the Central belt where I live - is quite good... However, the lack of information about road closures renders it almost useless. Every time I have been delayed or caught up in a jam has been as a result of my Tomtom being unaware of a road closure - had I been aware of the closure in the first place, I would have been able to avoid the problem.

Unless Tomtom get their act together and provide a UK wide traffic service, I for one will not be renewing my Live subscription next year Evil or Very Mad

I got en email recently from Tomtom asking how I found the service - for once, it was not simply the choice of a) great, b) marvellous, c) stupendous.

I made all the points about what is lacking both in horizon and in closed roads and would suggest that anyone else who gets the email does likewise.

PS - A few months ago I spoke to a couple who had a 90 mile detour as a result of the Rest and be Thankful being closed - if their Tomtom had known about it, they would have been much happier bunnies Exclamation
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falkirk81
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In regards to the Scotland missing road closures issue and other non-traffic incidents, for those who haven't, there is a rather long thread about it here if you want more info.

Just to summarise, Scotland and Wales DO get HD Traffic, just none of the other useful non-traffic broadcasts like breakdowns, road closures, lane closures etc etc, they DO get all Traffic incidents like anywhere else in the UK.

Steven
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Last edited by falkirk81 on Fri May 18, 2012 11:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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Graeme2812
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

falkirk81 wrote:
In regards to the Scotland missing road closures issue and other non-traffic incidents, for those who haven't, there is a rather long thread about it here if you want more info.


I think you might mean this thread.
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

falkirk81 wrote:
Just to summarise, Scotland and Wales DO get HD Traffic, just none of the other useful non-traffic broadcasts like breakdowns, road closures, lane closures etc etc, they DO get all Traffic incidents like anywhere else in the UK.
For an ignoramus who knows nothing about these things. what's the difference between a hold up caused by road/lane closures and 'traffic incidents'? Surely the former will cause the latter. And if they don't cause an 'incident' why are they useful?
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falkirk81
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graham, thanks, my mistake! Oops

M8tjt, Actual delays will always be shown, what is missing are things like road closures, lane closures, roadworks, breakdowns, all things that may delay your journey.
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