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Pinpointing Public Toilets: A Community Call to Action!
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PeterSm
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Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 49
Location: Leighton Buzzard, UK

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:28 pm    Post subject: Council Websites Reply with quote

Suggest having a look at most council websites as they often have GIS maps + sat nav downloads on their site. I believe this may even be a Government requirement for Council websites.....

Westminster for example have their "Sat Lav" system which has TT and Garmin downloads, Belfast, Harrow etc have a "find-aLoo" systems as well.....

Google serach for +council +location +public +toilets found 100's....
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DefenderBLACK
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Joined: 23/06/2003 17:45:35
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Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent idea for listing public toilets as usually have to search for nearest fuel or eating place on tomtom.

One question as was about to submit a few locations on the poi section is what heading of poi have you got it under as i couldnt find it?

got 2 go, :-)

Paul
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Andy_P
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Joined: Jun 04, 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Pinpointing Public Toilets: A Community Call to Action! Reply with quote

Anita wrote:
If everyone enters all the public toilets they know we should get pretty comprehensive coverage...


Do we REALLY have to do that? Can't we just drive past them? Wink
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253
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Joined: Mar 05, 2007
Posts: 1054
Location: The green bit between the M40, M4 and M25.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DefenderBLACK wrote:
Excellent idea for listing public toilets as usually have to search for nearest fuel or eating place on tomtom.

One question as was about to submit a few locations on the poi section is what heading of poi have you got it under as i couldnt find it?

got 2 go, :-)

Paul


it's under Community / Public Toilets
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DefenderBLACK
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Joined: 23/06/2003 17:45:35
Posts: 103
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DOH,

Found it thanks - have entered 3 so far. Is their a star rating and if so should i put it in the details?

Thanks again.
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Oldboy
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Joined: Dec 08, 2004
Posts: 10632
Location: Suffolk, UK

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Council Websites Reply with quote

PeterSm wrote:
Suggest having a look at most council websites as they often have GIS maps + sat nav downloads on their site. I believe this may even be a Government requirement for Council websites.....

Westminster for example have their "Sat Lav" system which has TT and Garmin downloads, Belfast, Harrow etc have a "find-aLoo" systems as well.....

Google serach for +council +location +public +toilets found 100's....
If anyone is thinking of doing it this way, then may I suggest that you create a Text File and email it in. Anything that contains more than 20 locations.
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mikealder
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Joined: Jan 14, 2005
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Location: Blackpool , Lancs

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A word of warning about using the data provided by the local authorities, On the Blackpool web site there are 21 locations shown but 5 of them are simply not there anymore due to the reconstruction of the prom and the positional data is to inaccurate to be of use - I have just driven round for 20 miles checking each one and logging the positions on the Nav unit - a much more accurate method IMHO - Mike
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SpikeyMikey
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Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Posts: 852
Location: Hertfordshire. Forever blowing bubbles

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikealder wrote:
I have just driven round for 20 miles checking each one and logging the positions on the Nav unit - a much more accurate method IMHO - Mike


I hope you went in disguise Wink
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Pinpointing Public Toilets: A Community Call to Action! Reply with quote

Andy_P wrote:
Anita wrote:
If everyone enters all the public toilets they know we should get pretty comprehensive coverage...

Do we REALLY have to do that? Can't we just drive past them? Wink
It comes to all of us in time, Andy - You too will eventually reach the more mature stage of "Never go past a toilet"!
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BigPerk
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Joined: Sep 06, 2006
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Location: East Hertfordshire

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would suggest just location. The less detail, the less to get out of date/need updating. If I need to go to a loo it's pot luck anyway - if it's closed, it's closed, and hopefully there'll be another nearby - possibly a supermarket or pub - no real need to include these specifically, I would suggest, as there are already POI lists for them; I've had to force down a drink more than once to qualify for a pee. Cool
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RobBrady
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Joined: Jul 21, 2004
Posts: 2718
Location: Chelmsford, UK

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've been discussing this internally and it looks like the best option to go forward is to create a new category and sub-categories.

Rather than "Community" / "Public toilets", we'd promote "Public Toilets" to the main category then include sub categories such as:

Public Authority
Super Loos (paid)
Cafe/Restaurant
Department Store
Shopping Centre/Mall
Petrol Station
Parks/Recreation Areas
Temporary (events such as Glastonbury, V Festival etc.)
Leisure and Entertainment Complexes (theatres, cinemas, concert halls, sports venues, swimming pools (no peeing in the pool!) etc.)

This is just a draft list for discussion, so no doubt will change with feedback/additions.
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RobBrady
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Joined: Jul 21, 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Main pedestrian entrance versus main car park entrance versus pinpointed actual location...

I'd personally say that if a toilet was located in a department store deep within a shopping centre, then the POI should be positioned exactly where the toilet actually is, not the shopping centre's entrance nor the car park entrance.

If we had a shopping centre/mall sub-category and the POI was flagged as such, then it would be obvious (to most I hope!) that you would have to follow the road signs to the main entrance or car park before you located the actual toilet.

We also have to bear in mind the huge increase in pedestrian navigation predicted over the next few years. This is where actual location rather than convenient route entrance will come into its own.
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Robert Brady
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RobBrady
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Joined: Jul 21, 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikealder wrote:
A word of warning about using the data provided by the local authorities, On the Blackpool web site there are 21 locations shown but 5 of them are simply not there anymore due to the reconstruction of the prom and the positional data is to inaccurate to be of use - I have just driven round for 20 miles checking each one and logging the positions on the Nav unit - a much more accurate method IMHO - Mike

Great work Mike! Very Happy

This is a superb example of how community data trumps official data!
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Robert Brady
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RobBrady
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Joined: Jul 21, 2004
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Location: Chelmsford, UK

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigPerk wrote:
I would suggest just location. The less detail, the less to get out of date/need updating.

Good point David, but if it becomes a popular part of the site, which I suspect it will, I personally think the community will do a good job of keeping it up to date. That said, early days yet and we're still considering feedback such as yours. We've just got to make sure Oldboy and Oldie can keep up with the submissions.

Naturally there will be greater flow of submissions than usual due to the front page announcement - and the newsletter which will contain the article next Friday - but hopefully it'll become more of manageable stream after that. Let's just hope it doesn't slow down to a trickle Wink
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mikealder
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Joined: Jan 14, 2005
Posts: 19638
Location: Blackpool , Lancs

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RobBrady wrote:
I'd personally say that if a toilet was located in a department store deep within a shopping centre, then the POI should be positioned exactly where the toilet actually is, not the shopping centre's entrance nor the car park entrance.
Whilst modern GPS receivers are good they will not work underground or inside shops within larger overall structures such as Meadow Hall or the Trafford Center - if you do manage to get a position fix it is probably going to quite inaccurate due to signal attenuation.
I am not aware of any large stores using GPS re-rad's which would enable reception in store, but these would be both illegal and useless as they only transmit the position of the roof mounted aerial within the building they are used in.

Also consider how this is intended to work - if people post in locations way off the road network a car based device will refuse to provide a route to it, if it doesn't work on the car based navigation devices in a reliable way then I cannot see much interest in updating it by the members of this site who currently are mainly using road based devices.

In the case of the locations I have logged they were taken from the car whilst positioned on the road as close as possible to the location, anyone using a hand held unit in pedestrian mode would soon be able to see the actual location as it was typically within 20 feet. Some of the locations on the prom though are a considerable distance away from the road, they are still easy to spot, but a car based device would refuse to produce a route to the location as it is too far from the road - Mike
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