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Appeal to night drivers
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philpugh
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnny_D wrote:
I can confirm Shad that Mr Plod still does get the hump. My wife was driving my car home the other night on some of the darkest country roads you ever seen :p

She often uses the front driving lamps [As printed by ford - NOT FRONT FOG LIGHTS Laughing Out Loud] and Mr Plod had a word in her shell like.

So it's an interesting point, but a lot of the manufacturers seem to be calling them driving lights rather fog lights ;)

Just a thought.

JD


I think they have to be 21W or lower to qualify as driving lights. Plus something out he beam height?

A friend of mine's wife got pulled on the M62 for (inadvertently) driving with her rear fog lights on. It had been foggy over the tops and she had forgotten to turn them off as she got north of Manchester.
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aj2052
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ford must have changed or using different lights on different models, I have just rechecked my owners handbook and it definitely calls them Fog Lights with a warning to when visibilty bad due to fog ,snow or rain as does the glossy brochure spec. to be quite honest I think they must fit these as added value extras, because I have to switch them on and off to see whether they are on or not and they are set to hit the ground immediately in front of the car so dont really add anything and i wouldnt have thought they would dazzle anybody, in fog they just brighten the fog in front, i always thought fog lights penetrate, by the way mine is a Focus Ghia estate 2 yrs old. so it looks like you cant just specifically say ford has fog or driving lamps.
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999tommo
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GPS_fan wrote:
This move also ought to eliminate the cool dudes using their front fog lights unnecessarily.


I think you could be right actually. There are far more people who use fog lamps as a fashion accessory than there are who leave the fog lamps on after driving in a genuine area or seriously reduced visibility.
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Darren
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been a long time since I had cause to refer to the Regs but looking at the current lighting regulations I can't see any definition for auxiliary driving lamps, only fog lamps.

ISTR that the height requirements meant that lamps below the front bumper could only be fog lights?

Either way, what I cannot understand is why manufacturers are allowed to design cars where these don't reset when the ignition is switched off? Countless times I see someone driving with their rear fog lamps illuminated when it is clear that there hasn't been any weather requiring them for some time and that they must have been driving with them on for days!

Surely having a soft ON/OFF that would switch them to OFF when the ignition is cycled or as with our Merc where the mechanical light switch will only allow fogs to be activated with headlamps ON and switches the fogs to OFF when the headlights are extinguished is better?
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999tommo
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aj2052 wrote:
Ford must have changed or using different lights on different models, I have just rechecked my owners handbook and it definitely calls them Fog Lights with a warning to when visibilty bad due to fog ,snow or rain as does the glossy brochure spec. to be quite honest I think they must fit these as added value extras, because I have to switch them on and off to see whether they are on or not and they are set to hit the ground immediately in front of the car so dont really add anything and i wouldnt have thought they would dazzle anybody, in fog they just brighten the fog in front, i always thought fog lights penetrate, by the way mine is a Focus Ghia estate 2 yrs old. so it looks like you cant just specifically say ford has fog or driving lamps.


Very few Fords are fitted as standard with 'driving lamps'. In recent years the mid 1990's XR2i had both 'fog lamps' and 'driving lamps' located in the front bumper. Slightly earlier was the XR3i and RS Turbo Escorts which had 'driving lamps' and no 'fog lamps' to the front.

Your Focus will have fog lamps as no Focus has been fitted with anything else. They are designed to throw light out on a low level in front of the car but do not have much range. They are only of any use to aid vision if visibility is VERY poor and by this point you would be crusing along at all of 15-20 mph as they won't let you see more than a few yards.

As for causing undue dazzle, if used incorrectly that's exactly what they do. Particularly if the road surface is wet as the light bounces of the road making alot of glare.

Almost every car has a warning light on the dashboard somewhere, so there is no real excuse for leaving them on unnecessarily.
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aj2052
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tommo said
Quote:
Your Focus will have fog lamps as no Focus has been fitted with anything else. They are designed to throw light out on a low level in front of the car but do not have much range. They are only of any use to aid vision if visibility is VERY poor and by this point you would be crusing along at all of 15-20 mph as they won't let you see more than a few yards.

I think your perception is entirely correct, in my view they are a waste of space, as i said they seem to be so called added value, secondly i think darrens idea is a good one, it happens with Both my front/rear screen heaters why not fog lights, seems so simple.
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Darren
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should add that the driver still ought to be responsible but I appreciate that in some older cars the warning light can be missed.

Another bug bear of mine is HiD Headlights, these new Xenon beam thingies. In the UK, factory fit HiD systems have to self level and even then they can be very distracting. But there is a trend to retro fit to older cars with kits now available. These don't auto level (although I'm not sure on their legality) and they are even worse.

And whilst I'm on my soap-box, I think we need to implement staged licences with restrictions and mandatory re-test at 70!
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999tommo
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
Surely having a soft ON/OFF that would switch them to OFF when the ignition is cycled or as with our Merc where the mechanical light switch will only allow fogs to be activated with headlamps ON and switches the fogs to OFF when the headlights are extinguished is better?


I totally agree. My last few cars have had a similar switch setup with the fog lights all being turned off by the main light switch. This is a very simple idea, which more manufacturers should use.

The ones I hate are the Peugeot/Citroen/Renault type, where the fog lamps are switched on by a rotating collar situated on the already rotating light switch on the left stalk controller. It is very easy to switch on your fog lamps by mistake when you switch your headlights on. They do however have a big tell-tale lamp on the dash warning you of your error.
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Darren
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

999tommo wrote:
The ones I hate are the Peugeot/Citroen/Renault type, where the fog lamps are switched on by a rotating collar situated on the already rotating light switch on the left stalk controller. It is very easy to switch on your fog lamps by mistake when you switch your headlights on. They do however have a big tell-tale lamp on the dash warning you of your error.

Indeed, hard to see how they can miss that, mind you plenty miss the fact that they have driven for two miles with their indicators on too!
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
mandatory re-test at 70!
Yeah well, you're not 70. Some of us nearly are. Stop it! Grrrr

My Renault Kangoo rear fog light warning glares at me - can't miss it unless you have an eyesight problem!

Another annoyance is those maniacs who, in poor light, race up the motorway at 95 on parking lights, overtaking everything which could pull out in front of them because they are driving invisible cars over the speed limit - they don't seem to realise they are driving a rain spray coloured death wish. BUT when they blast past you, guess what? They've got their rear fogs on, as if they expect somebody to hare up behind them at 100!!
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Darren
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DennisN wrote:
Yeah well, you're not 70. Some of us nearly are. Stop it! Grrrr

Fair comment and as you are a professional driver your skills should be fairly well tuned unlike many.

My tongue in cheek comment was perhaps unfairly aimed at the older driver but there is I feel a clear need to verify a drivers ability more often than just at test time. Perhaps licence need to be renewed every five years and we should all attend a DMV centre as they do in the US where we have to take a brief eye test and paper based exam?
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's OK Darren, I (and all the other nearly 70-year-olds) knew you didn't mean me. Twisted Evil Funny isn't it, I don't often think of myself as a professional driver, but having earned from it for nearly 10 years now, I suppose I am (I just feel more comfortable with "Retired County Hall Numpty").
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999tommo
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
ISTR that the height requirements meant that lamps below the front bumper could only be fog lights?


I may be thick, but for the life of me, I can't work out what ISTR means....anyway, a front fog lamp can be upto 1200mm from the ground....

SEE HERE

A driving lamp is classed as a main beam headlamp, the regulations regarding their fitting and operation are shown.....

HERE

But basically they must be able to be switched so that they either change to a dipped beam or switch off and cause a separate dipped beam to illuminate.

Road Traffic legislation is not worded so that you can simply tell someone what it means. You really have to (try to) read it for yourself.
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Darren
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ISTR = I Seem To Recall Smile

Thanks for the links, I'll go have a shuftie Cool
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999tommo
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
ISTR = I Seem To Recall Smile



TFT (thanks for that) Very Happy
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