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Sensitivity
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DougWeller
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:40 pm    Post subject: Sensitivity Reply with quote

I've been seriously considering buying that and understood that it would be work pretty well in woods, etc, at least as sensitive as the Garmin 60CS.

Now I'm reading that it has poor sensitivity. That's a deal killer for me, is it really the case?

Doug
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rog62
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used mine for the first time in a wooded area this week - whilst mountain biking with the Active 10 in its case in the top of my rucsac - a quick examination of the track when I got back indicates that it tracked my movements correctly...far better than the results I was getting from a Garmin Geko....This was a short ride - 10 miles but almost 100% on tracks/paths in wooded areas....
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bluewomble
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've used my Active10 (with v1.03 of the firmware) twice so far in woodlands with no problems, although there aren't any leaves on the trees at the moment which might help I guess...

I have it mounted on my my bike on the stem with the bike mount.

On both trips it was showing the correct position whenever I looked at it and the track log showed me exactly where I thought I had been.
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have used mine quite a number of times in a heavy forest that is evergreen - large tall pine trees, no problems with reception - I thought it might struggle a little but it performed excellently, I have had other SiRF-III GPS devices fail at this location when previously tried - Mike
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robs1972
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no problems with sensitivity except when I take the unit off the bike and then carry it around a shop/garage mid ride or ride through a road tunnel and then it returns straight away when in the open air again.
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Physicist
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More on A10 sensitivity. There appear to be some users who are entirely happy with the sensitivity but there are others - who perhaps have prior experience of the Garmin 60CSx and other SIRF III receivers - who are disappointed with it.

I can illustrate the different sensitivities/acquisition anecdotally. Indoors (in a ground-floor flat) I can get 3-4 satellites on the Garmin and nothing on the A10. Take the receiver outdoors and I may get 8-10 satellites on the Garmin but typically a couple less on the A10. The position acquisition only takes 30-60 s on the Garmin but often 15-30 minutes on the A10 (these are 'cold start' figures). Leaving both sets switched on I head off into dense woodland; both sets will continue to lock. But now switch both off in the dense coverage; the Garmin will within seconds determine your location. To get a new fix with the A10 I often have to find a clearing and once lock has been achieved head back into the woods. If you just look at the track on the A10 you may think you are getting a continuous signal. If you look at the satellite page you may find outages in dense tree cover which is less apparent as the set connects the signal outage/restore points with a straight line. I have used both sets in Horner Wood on Exmoor (tree cover in deep gorge); I only get 2-3 satellites on the A10 and hence no fix but around 6 on the Garmin. I would summarise the situation by saying that the A10 has about the sensitivity of my Magellan XL or may earlier Garmin 60CS but takes longer to get a fix than either.

These observations are based on two different A10s.
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martin_b
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm one of the unhappy ones!

mine can take several minutes to get a fix. This is on open heath land less than a mile from my home.
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Jay1967
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Physicist wrote:
More on A10 sensitivity. There appear to be some users who are entirely happy with the sensitivity but there are others - who perhaps have prior experience of the Garmin 60CSx and other SIRF III receivers - who are disappointed with it.

I can illustrate the different sensitivities/acquisition anecdotally. Indoors (in a ground-floor flat) I can get 3-4 satellites on the Garmin and nothing on the A10. Take the receiver outdoors and I may get 8-10 satellites on the Garmin but typically a couple less on the A10. The position acquisition only takes 30-60 s on the Garmin but often 15-30 minutes on the A10 (these are 'cold start' figures). Leaving both sets switched on I head off into dense woodland; both sets will continue to lock. But now switch both off in the dense coverage; the Garmin will within seconds determine your location. To get a new fix with the A10 I often have to find a clearing and once lock has been achieved head back into the woods. If you just look at the track on the A10 you may think you are getting a continuous signal. If you look at the satellite page you may find outages in dense tree cover which is less apparent as the set connects the signal outage/restore points with a straight line. I have used both sets in Horner Wood on Exmoor (tree cover in deep gorge); I only get 2-3 satellites on the A10 and hence no fix but around 6 on the Garmin. I would summarise the situation by saying that the A10 has about the sensitivity of my Magellan XL or may earlier Garmin 60CS but takes longer to get a fix than either.

These observations are based on two different A10s.


so what is the SNR reading of your A10 when you are 'not getting a fix' with it?
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martin_b
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just tested mine again,

Standing outside in the "same position" as it was last used, ( in a wide open space) my unit took 4mins 45 sec to get a fix. this is with new batteries. In comparison my Nuvi unit inside the car takes about 30sec.

If I hadn't battered mine about a bit I'd send it back! What i will say though is once it has a fix it seems pretty good at keeping it.
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Jay1967
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

martin_b wrote:
Just tested mine again,

Standing outside in the "same position" as it was last used, ( in a wide open space) my unit took 4mins 45 sec to get a fix. this is with new batteries. In comparison my Nuvi unit inside the car takes about 30sec.

If I hadn't battered mine about a bit I'd send it back! What i will say though is once it has a fix it seems pretty good at keeping it.


stood outside in my garden, house 10m behind me, 6 foot fence 4 m to my right, 30ft trees 30m infront of me. SaMap was unused for 12 hours. Cold start and locked position in 1m 50s. Powered off, off for 10s, powered on, got lock 40 seconds.

When put in heading Up position, maps span for over 2 mins.. very disconcerting. SNR reading between 30-35.

This is not as good as the Garmin 60CSx.
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lucevans
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
stood outside in my garden, house 10m behind me, 6 foot fence 4 m to my right, 30ft trees 30m infront of me. SaMap was unused for 12 hours. Cold start and locked position in 1m 50s. Powered off, off for 10s, powered on, got lock 40 seconds.

When put in heading Up position, maps span for over 2 mins.. very disconcerting. SNR reading between 30-35.

This is not as good as the Garmin 60CSx.


Where in the Satmap does it display the SNR? I've looked everywhere I can think of, and there is distinct lack of any kind of technical info - a bit disappointing to someone who's come from a Garmin Map 60CSx (I like the Garmin satellite view screen and can work out where in the sky the birds are...something I can't do by looking at the Satmap screen Sad )
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Jay1967
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lucevans wrote:
Quote:
stood outside in my garden, house 10m behind me, 6 foot fence 4 m to my right, 30ft trees 30m infront of me. SaMap was unused for 12 hours. Cold start and locked position in 1m 50s. Powered off, off for 10s, powered on, got lock 40 seconds.

When put in heading Up position, maps span for over 2 mins.. very disconcerting. SNR reading between 30-35.

This is not as good as the Garmin 60CSx.


Where in the Satmap does it display the SNR? I've looked everywhere I can think of, and there is distinct lack of any kind of technical info - a bit disappointing to someone who's come from a Garmin Map 60CSx (I like the Garmin satellite view screen and can work out where in the sky the birds are...something I can't do by looking at the Satmap screen Sad )


The SNR is on the Satellite Display Screen, middle right of the screen. Yes, the manual is very limited and the SNR is not mentioned from what I can see!
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lucevans
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The SNR is on the Satellite Display Screen, middle right of the screen. Yes, the manual is very limited and the SNR is not mentioned from what I can see!


Embarassed Of course it is! I don't know what I was thinking....thanks Jay1967.
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Jay1967
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:02 pm    Post subject: Garmin 60CSx vs SatMap Reply with quote

Garmin 60CSx vs SatMap - small test .. after placing both units on my table indoors (where i always get between 5 & 10 satellites) both units showed the same number of satellites in view and both units were unable to lock on to any satellites.

ps. how does one show images in the post?
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to host the image on the net then link to it on the forum, image shack is a good free site that supports forum links and accepting uploads.

As you had two GPS devices on the table were they close together? if so I am not surprised the reception is poor, close proximity causes interference and will result in a longer time to acquire a position fix, or under poor reception conditions you might never get a lock on either device. Even with a fix two devices close together will compromise the accuracy.

If you don't believe me get both devices showing a position fix, watch the SNR on both devices as you draw them closer together - Mike
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