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Membership Subscription Options Change
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Darren
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chef_uk wrote:
Whilst i support your decision to take action, it will never stop those that pirate. You could offer the database for 100 and it would be on the warez and torrent sites within hours.

I don't doubt that some will still do that but there will be less so inclined as they risk 19 instead of 2 and will still lose their sub if we catch them.
Quote:
Is removing the monthly subs only hurting a minority here? What % of subs are monthly to annual?

I don't have exact figures but yes, monthly subs were a minority and this made strengthened our decision to remove the monthly option.
Quote:
Why not increase the Monthly subs to 5? I only invisage ever needing an up to date database twice a year so even at 5pm, a year would only cost 10.

I know 10 and 19 may not seem like a big difference, but to me and no doubt some others it is. I have to live off one wage to support my new family. Releasing 2 per month is alot easier for me than a one off 19.

From experience I can just imagine the furore that would cause! Not only would that not be the disincentive to pirates that we sought but I strongly doubt that would be better received than the option we have chosen.

The database is similar to a an anti-virus dat file. Unless updated as often as possible it's almost worse than no protection, even if you only drive local routes you can be caught out. I appreciate cost considerations are an issue, but if we assume we're all car owning GPS users is 19 really such a large amount?
Quote:
Will you monitor the piracy activity from here on in to see whether this movement proves successful? and if it doesn't, will you consider bringing back the monthly subs? (legit questions, not trying to argue or upset anyone)

Indeed we will, I can assure you that we don't take such moves without much consideration and will be looking very closely at how this pans out both for subscribers and pirates.
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Darren
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

weelogic wrote:
At the risk of being flamed, I disagree not with the decision but with the views on the database. I have posted several times on non-existent cameras and have logged numerous removal requests with substantiated facts. The most common errors (in my locality) are listings for speed warning signs, which the database "rules" state are not to be listed as mobile sites.

The database may be better than alternatives - I don't know, I haven't tried others and am one of those people who still thinks of wares (sic) as what a friendly trader sells at a market - but it's still woefully inaccurate on the mobile sites. There are many many sites which can never be called "regular" and it remains easier to have a site listed than removed. That's just my opinion, but the lack of response to removal requests justifies that opinion to me.

Your views are valid but perhaps better as a specific post in the database forums. Mobile sites are inherently difficult to verify but we do try our best.

As for Warez, it's a friendly name for pirated, pure and simple and that friendly trader in the market selling bootleg CD's is a criminal as are those who benefit from the proceeds.
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Darren
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GPS_fan wrote:
I was wondering if it might be any benefit to the team and moderators if people's IDs a distinguishable - for example an 'M' suffix for paid up members and a 'G' suffix for those who use the free forum.

There appear to be a few people who sail close to the wind as regards forum rules are concerned and it is possibly people who haven't paid their subscription who are the worst offenders because they have nothing to lose.

It may be easier for the team for act appropriately if they know who has or hasn't paid for their subscription.

That's a good idea and one I'll discuss, no reason why we can't do this if the forum software allows it.
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Darren
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

daddyslaphead wrote:
As a newcomer I thought I'd got really luck for once - a site that offered an excellent service for next to nothing. I don't drive mega miles a year so the ability to update on an occasional basis for just a couple of quid was just what I needed.


See my response to this above. It doesn't take a 30,000 mile a year driver to get caught. I have three regular mobile sites within two miles of my house and it takes only a moments lack of concentration to get snapped. An out of date database is a risk.
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pigsy1974
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must applaud your decision guys. I used the database when it was free, paid an annual membership when it was introduced and received a lifetime membership for a camera submission. The whole idea of this database is that it evolves from member contribution, whether that be financial or by camera reporting and verification. If people are not willing to contribute financally over the long term i suggest they contribute by submitting a new camera. A lifetime membership is 20 years so if you pay your annual membership of 19, get a lifetime membership for contributing then membership actually costs 95p per year!!!!
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GPS_fan
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another possibility to minimise 'offences' could be the requirement for more personal data when registering.

IIRC the only requirements at the moment are a username and e-mail address.

If somebody is removed for piracy or breaking the rules in any other way, it is not too difficult to generate an alternative e-mail address for re-registering.

It may be an administrative nightmare, but people would have more to lose if they had to give an address and/or other information when registering.

Data protection and all sorts of other things may also have to be considered, but if it's in the interest of protecting the assets of the business then most members would probably not have any complaint.

After all, if you take your cars for new tyres etc then the company will ask for an address whether you leave your car or sit and wait for it.
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Curious
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Totally agree, and stand by your actions. A 19 a year it's cheap.
I was paying 50 a year with Morpheous, and your data base is much much better.
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PaulB2005
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It may be an administrative nightmare, but people would have more to lose if they had to give an address and/or other information when registering.


Which could always be faked anyway.

Besides we have other methods to detect those that return under a new username anyway.
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GPS_fan
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way, I know that it's only a few hours since the change(s) came into effect but the left hand side of PGPSW web pages continue to llist the 2 option:

"Members Area (2)"

This may have been an oversight, but I think that it ought to be removed as soon as somebody has a moment...otherwise it might lead to complaints if it's still listed but is no longer a valid option
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Darren
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pigsy1974 wrote:
A lifetime membership is 20 years so if you pay your annual membership of 19, get a lifetime membership for contributing then membership actually costs 95p per year!!!!

Actually when we say 'Lifetime' we mean as long as the site is still running so that will hopefully be a good deal longer! The 20 years thing is simply a limitation of the forums subscription coding which cannot cope with periods longer than 20 years Smile
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Darren
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GPS_fan wrote:
Another possibility to minimise 'offences' could be the requirement for more personal data when registering.

IIRC the only requirements at the moment are a username and e-mail address.

If somebody is removed for piracy or breaking the rules in any other way, it is not too difficult to generate an alternative e-mail address for re-registering.

All too easily faked but we have access to the PayPal information of subscribers. Anyone caught red handed is of course banned and loses their subscription as a fair few have discovered to their surprise in recent months. Although it is a simple process to rejoin the forum under a new identity, it is not so easy to get a new PayPal account.

We're not fools and realise that there will always be those who will still seek to thwart any measures we take. But as with any criminal acts this is about making it less attractive to them.
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Last edited by Darren on Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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GPS_fan
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PaulB2005 wrote:
Besides we have other methods to detect those that return under a new username anyway.


Don't give away any secrets, but I wasn't aware of what happens behind the scenes or which tools the PGPSW team has at their disposal.
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petejhodson
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

no problem at all with your decision, 19 a year is a small price to pay when compared to the pssible saving on fines, never mind points!!
Keep up the good work!
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Darren
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GPS_fan wrote:
By the way, I know that it's only a few hours since the change(s) came into effect but the left hand side of PGPSW web pages continue to llist the 2 option:

"Members Area (2)"

This may have been an oversight, but I think that it ought to be removed as soon as somebody has a moment...otherwise it might lead to complaints if it's still listed but is no longer a valid option

Thanks for pointing that out, we'll change that ASAP. There may be other areas where we have missed this so I would be greatful if anyone spots these could similarly let us know!
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Traveller
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a yearly subscriber and I would just like to show my support for the annual only subscription. Although I doubt this move will eliminate piracy I think it is a move in the right direction.

I believe that 19 per year is good value for such an excellent database and if one can afford to run a car and buy a decent GPS device then the database cost seems insignificant.
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