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Speed Camera Database to Turn Professional
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wickerman
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Joined: Aug 29, 2005
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I don't have a problem with paying on a per download basis, and 2 per go seems reasonable. People who claim they are paying for information that should be shared free of charge are forgetting the service that the folks at poketgpsworld provide - ie. collecting and collating the information provided by hundreds of users and processing it to a form that can be easilyused with your chosed navigation software. However, I do think the timing of this decision is a little odd, with the government having recently announced their intentions to reduce the number of new speed cameras added from 2007/8. Presumably, this will mean that people will just download less frequently...
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daveyonthemove
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Joined: Aug 16, 2005
Posts: 38
Location: Stafford

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almahadeus wrote:
daveyonthemove wrote:
I can't see what all the fuss is about?
Someone at this site is working hard to get every camera in the country logged, or identified and on a system for everyone to use, and you are all whinging about 2??

The fuss my dear is because of the fact that this "someone" who is working hard to get every camera in the country identified is actually the same poor people who are now being asked to pay for it. CAN YOU NOW SEE WHAT THE FUSS IS ABOUT ??????????????????????????????????????

Well, maybe you and a few other ppl have sent in the locations and got the system up to date, and for that the rest of us are gratefull, but why should the guys who ACTUALLY do the work do it for nothing.
By this i don't mean pressing a button on the PDA to capture a location and then dock it to upload it. Thats not doing the work! The blokes at the site who recieve them, make sure the format is correct, check them, add them to an ever expanding databse, and then make it publicly availabe for FREE...... they are the ones doing the work, and if 2 is too much for you averytime you dock your PDA or other device's, why not update less often?
Most ppl on here probably only travel the same RAT RACE everyday anyway, so any speed camera that appears wouldn't be un-noticed before it was active, so whats the fuss about? If ppl like reps who travel far and wide and do need it more often aren't happy to pay 2 a go, there are alternatives. DEARER alternatives. Your only fed up that you might have to dip into your pocket for something you took for granted as being free.
As for uploads, if your paying for the downloads, wouldn't you personally want to be making sure it was even more accurate? i would, so i'd be happy to log any and every camera in the hope it menat my next 2 was well spent and supporting a brilliant service.
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metroace
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Joined: Sep 27, 2005
Posts: 169
Location: Middlesex

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NoLCD wrote:
For Garmin i3 owners the option to upload camera postions is not so easy so they will be penalised in a free-to-contibutors database, a copy of Mapsource or a slow cross check with streetmap or multimap is the only way.


Ditto for ViaMichelin users. Is there a TomTom mafia developing?
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SandyMac
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Joined: Sep 03, 2005
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:06 pm    Post subject: Speed Camera Database Reply with quote

Just thought that I would clarify to those people who have been saying that paying for the database is only fair etc.

What they seem to keep missing is that this website already has revenue generators yet the administrators continue to avoid telling us how much income is received. I assume that these same people are the ones collating the database from information freely given by contributors. I admit that I am not one but this does not detract from the fact that the information contained in the database is not owned by the website and cannot therefore be charged for. If they wish to charge then the administrators must ensure that all information received from third-parties is removed otherwise legal action could be taken against them, particularly as they have stated the database would always be free (thus encouraging people to contribute as all benefit).

I would strongly suggest that the administrators take legal advice before they proceed.
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alix776
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Joined: 03/05/2003 14:45:49
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Location: leyland lancs ENGLAND

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sandy the admin team and director will have taken legal advise before drawing up any plans

whilst not haveing ago ill now spend the next few hours looking for the post that says catagorically that the database will always be free or could you please point in the right direction
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alix776
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Joined: 03/05/2003 14:45:49
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Location: leyland lancs ENGLAND

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok hands up i found a post Embarassed refering to it being against our pilosophy to charge i stand corrected on that point and put my hands up

whilst not wanting to start the thread fireing on all cylinders again could we please keep the thread construtive and have a good christmas until the admin team put there proposal forward thanks
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Marc_L400
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Joined: Dec 21, 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just been looking about on the forums and came across a post by Darren,not unusual i here u say but something he says seems to be the exact opposite of what he is saying now,
Darren wrote:
At the end of the day this is a free database and will never match the accuracy of the commercial version
So if it will never match the accuracy of a commercial version why the need to charge for it,after all by your own admission it isnt as accurate as a pro version????
Just noticed also a couple of old posts have been edited where i can only assume there was comments detremental to the pgpsw's latest hash (it was a mod that edited out a 9 moth old post derive from that what u will)

Marc
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ccsnet
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Joined: May 01, 2005
Posts: 101
Location: Lancashire

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marc_L400 wrote:
Just been looking about on the forums and came across a post by Darren,not unusual i here u say but something he says seems to be the exact opposite of what he is saying now,
Darren wrote:
At the end of the day this is a free database and will never match the accuracy of the commercial version
So if it will never match the accuracy of a commercial version why the need to charge for it,after all by your own admission it isnt as accurate as a pro version????
Just noticed also a couple of old posts have been edited where i can only assume there was comments detremental to the pgpsw's latest hash (it was a mod that edited out a 9 moth old post derive from that what u will)

Marc
Ouch

Terran
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Russky
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Joined: Oct 17, 2005
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apologies if this has been covered before, but how about a "Credits" system?

Each download uses 2 of credit, you pay credit into your PGPSW account with some incentive, say pay in 10 and recieve 12 worth of credit, 20 and get 26 and so on....

If you submit verified camera locations this can also build up your credit towards downloading the database - perhaps this would be 2 of credit per 3 verified cameras, with users only able to download a single camera location once to stop mutiple submissions of the same camera.

At least this way you can cover most aspects:
*Provide per download payments (2 a time)
*Provide for one payment for a number of downloads, with incentive break points (at 10 and 20 for example).
*Provide rewards to users who update the database with bonfide camera locations.

Just some ideas..

Have a good christmas everyone.

Russky
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Stanley_Tweedle
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Joined: Jul 10, 2005
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone mentioned that the open source method would be to now fork the database so the information given freely could be made available for others to continue developing freely. Then PGPSW could possibly justify charging for their more "professional" service in future. Actually that doesn't resolve whether or nor they have the right to charge for the actual data suppled freely by users but it may be a compromise (PGPSW can possibly have a case for charging for colating/editing/formatting the data).

Can the directors of Pocket GPS World please state whether they would have any objection to this forking?
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Sean16
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Joined: Dec 23, 2004
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't believe that today we have one and a half pages of users still going on about this. It's christmas eve, maybe it's time for some to log off and start to enjoy this time of the year and worry about the database another day.



Merry Christmas Sean :D
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conroyd
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Joined: Feb 08, 2005
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Speed Camera Database Reply with quote

SandyMac wrote:


What they seem to keep missing is that this website already has revenue generators yet the administrators continue to avoid telling us how much income is received.


Net Assets at Dec 31 2004 were 11,064.

So not a lot I would guess..
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tomcat76
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Joined: Aug 18, 2004
Posts: 100
Location: West London

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
Andycambs wrote:
An extremely good point - which i have mentioned before, inasmuch that if you find inaccuracies in the database, will the fees be refunded?

Do you think Snooper, RoadAngel, Morpheous or any other commercial operators offer a refund on such situations? No and they will have taken 50+ of you.

Indeed all these operators accept user submissions and none of them offer any reward or credit for submission.


29.95 in the case of the Morpheous.... :D
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Simon1
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Joined: Aug 07, 2004
Posts: 388
Location: Surrey, UK

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tomcat76 wrote:
Darren wrote:
Andycambs wrote:
An extremely good point - which i have mentioned before, inasmuch that if you find inaccuracies in the database, will the fees be refunded?

Do you think Snooper, RoadAngel, Morpheous or any other commercial operators offer a refund on such situations? No and they will have taken 50+ of you.

Indeed all these operators accept user submissions and none of them offer any reward or credit for submission.


29.95 in the case of the Morpheous.... :D


However, users of these systems are aware of the fact that they are contributing to a commercial database before the fact. It's then in their interests to help seeing they have already outlaid money for the device.

In this case though, we were all under the impression that we contributed to a free DB, one that would never be charged for and thet the adverst would go a way to paying for costs.

And I'm still wondering what your feeling is, Darren, to the point that you made regarding the fact that this DB is at least as, if not more than accurate than most commercial db's. Why do we need to pay for it then to become commercial? There's no gain for the users and loads to lose.
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Marc_L400
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Joined: Dec 21, 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been doing a bit more looking about and some of the comments about the "free" database from mods is quite impressive,they swear its the best thing since sliced bread,and then they say its not as good as a commercialy based db.
This post by one of the mods intrigued me
privateer wrote:
I am a great evangelist of our PocketGPSWorld camera databases. However I would expect any commercial camera GPS database (and) hardware system to beat it. Because:

1. Whilst people report updates throughout the month, we only release a full update about once a month. The individual reports have to be verified on the maps.

2. Some commercial database companies offer a reward for new cameras.

3. I would expect all of the commercial database to have a good relationship/agreement with the various camera groups or installers of each camera.

4. Most commercial database companies have other means of verifying camera locations.

I use the PocketGPSWorld camera databases, a Morpheous Geodesy, and a Bel Euro 550 radar detector for additional security. So if you can justify the addition expense of the hardware and the annual subscription fee then I see no problem with that.

The PocketGPSWorld database is only as good as the people who report the updates. If you see a new camera, or a need for an update to be reported (i.e. camera moved, removed, speed limit change, etc) then please send in a report.

The PocketGPSWorld is very useful and free. Who else provides you with a free and regularly updated camera database?

Regards,
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Robert.



So from that then i pull these points,
No.2 Hmm rewards cant see this commercial outfit doing that.
No.4 Are you going to do as other "commercial" outfits do and verify each location??
Again another mod says that a commerical system is better than there product,so if this is the case is this outfit going to come up to others standards and be verified .
Will this now chargeable database be upto other commercialy operated database standards or will it just be the same ole db but with a price tag attached,i think we know the answer to that one.

Marc
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