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Holux GPSlim GR-236 Review
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NickG
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Joined: Nov 09, 2003
Posts: 357
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eldar wrote:
And my perfect GPS would tell me where my spectecals are


Why on earth should it tell you that? It's a GPS. My comment about a GPS being able to work in a wooded area is perfectly reasonable! You're really not too bright are you? You can't even spell the word spectacles - please learn it before you finish school.

Quote:
but seriously, if you develop a scoring system which is 99% perfect do let us know.


I've already made a suggestion for an improvement which Darren doesn't seem to think is a stupid idea - whereas you're making childish sarcastic comments about a GPS that can somehow find your glasses.
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phuse
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Joined: Sep 09, 2005
Posts: 3
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One problem with these and some of the other newer SiRFIII devices is the USB charging port. This means that you cannot run a PDA and the GPS off the same charger (with dual iPAQ type cable). Is there any converter available which will convert a standard round iPAQ charger connector to the USB port? I realise that the improved battery life of the newer models means that it may be less necessary to run the GPS off power in use.
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NickG
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Likewise its simply not feasible to conduct comparison reviews often, we simply do not have the time required and the Compareomatic database is there for that purpose.


I had no idea that page was there and I doubt any other users do either. The ONLY link to the "compareomatic" page (according to Google) is from an obscure forum post, so how were we supposed to find it? It is not linked to from any of the menus on the website.

See here:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=link%3Awww.pocketgpsworld.com%2Fcompareomatic%2Findex.php

The page however, is a very good idea (especially if the products were in rank-order) and should be linked to from the menu system and made much more obvious.[/url][/quote]
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Darren
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Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40
Posts: 23848
Location: Hampshire, UK

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NickG wrote:
Eldar wrote:
And my perfect GPS would tell me where my spectecals are


Why on earth should it tell you that? It's a GPS. My comment about a GPS being able to work in a wooded area is perfectly reasonable! You're really not too bright are you? You can't even spell the word spectacles - please learn it before you finish school.

Nick, you have adopted a manner from the outset which invites a sarcastic response. However sarcastic responses are not justification for insulting comments. Despite the fact that Eldar's written English is better than most, it is not his first language. I should add that he has considerably more knowledge of GPS than any of us.

If I can make one final point it is that I'm not sure what prompted your initial missive to be so aggressive but the manner of the replies is a direct result. In fact a quick perusal of your other posts suggest you are frequently anatagonistic. Give as you wish to receive.

Let's leave it at that shall we?
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Last edited by Darren on Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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uffe73
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Joined: Jul 23, 2004
Posts: 521
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
uffe73 wrote:
I would be very interested in a judgement of the Time To First Fix measured for this receiver. I've owned a GR-213, its little brother, a few weeks now and am very impressed with the sensitivity - once it has fix.

I have a GR-213 awaiting review, I'll be doing the review this weekend and will test the TTFF.

As for the GR-236, TTFF is typically sub 15seconds from cold, I have not observed the symptoms you describe with the GR-213.

I don't have the GR-236 at the moment but will get the firware versions for both over the weekend.


Ok, I'm looking forward to reading that review. If the SiRF FW version of your tested receivers shows to be newer than mine and you get good TTFF peformance, the SiRF FW is one possible fault reason.

One other thing I'd like you to ask you to take special notice of is what happens to the fix of the GR-213 when you crank the car engine, i.e when you go from carkey position 1 to engine running. When I do that in my car I always lose the fix, which could be caused by the temporary voltage drop (below the 12 v) you get in the cig outlet during crank. The voltage range for the GR-213 is 4.5-5.5V and the problem could therefore lie in the voltage converter built into the car charger.

Regards,
Ulf

A walk-around solution for above problem is to plug in the GPS after starting the engine
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Darren
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NickG wrote:
I had no idea that page was there and I doubt any other users do either. The ONLY link to the "compareomatic" page (according to Google) is from an obscure forum post, so how were we supposed to find it? It is not linked to from any of the menus on the website.

It was! It may have slipped through in the re-design. I'll look into it.
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Eldar
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Joined: Sep 24, 2004
Posts: 1294
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NickG
What I am trying to tell you is that different people have different expectations of the features and performance of a consumer GPS device. Also, the technology is changing very fast and creating a scoring system which will dynamically account for the current and future changes and give a consumer a basis for making a decision to buy is next to impossible.

Thank you very much for pointing out my childish behaviour and spelling mistakes, sarcasm doesn't come naturally to me.

Will you put your money where your mouth (is that a correct expression?) and devise (I looked it up in the dictionary) a scoring system you wrote so much about?
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NickG
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well as I seem to have annoyed everyone, I think it's most sensible if I steer clear of any future discussions - even if it is to do with the rating system. I apologise if my posts sound terse - it's not an admirable trait of mine but it is one I'm aware of and I apologise if I've annoyed or offended anyone.

Thanks...
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Eldar
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Joined: Sep 24, 2004
Posts: 1294
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NickG wrote:
Well as I seem to have annoyed everyone, I think it's most sensible if I steer clear of any future discussions


You certainly didn't annoy me, I've seen much worse on the Internet over the last 12 years Laughing Perhaps the most sensible thing is to keep participating in the future discussions (keeping in mind that some people haven't seen worse on the Net :D) - and I was absolutely serious about you developing the scoring system, you might well come up with the goods, I'm sure that Darren will listen to any sensible suggestions.
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D1NGB0T5
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Joined: May 04, 2005
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phuse wrote:
One problem with these and some of the other newer SiRFIII devices is the USB charging port. This means that you cannot run a PDA and the GPS off the same charger (with dual iPAQ type cable). Is there any converter available which will convert a standard round iPAQ charger connector to the USB port?


Holux do a dual charger cable which will charge both the PDA and a bluetooth receiver with a mini USB socket. They also have a PS2 to mini USB cable. This cable is designed to be used with their GM-210/212/213 cable so it might not work with the Y cable you have.
Cheers.
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Darren
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Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40
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Location: Hampshire, UK

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phuse wrote:
One problem with these and some of the other newer SiRFIII devices is the USB charging port. This means that you cannot run a PDA and the GPS off the same charger (with dual iPAQ type cable). Is there any converter available which will convert a standard round iPAQ charger connector to the USB port? I realise that the improved battery life of the newer models means that it may be less necessary to run the GPS off power in use.

You could always use a 2-WAY cigarette lighter socket. I have a 4-WAY one , cost less than 10.
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MikeB
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Joined: 20/08/2002 11:51:57
Posts: 3859
Location: Essex, UK

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NickG wrote:
Quote:
Likewise its simply not feasible to conduct comparison reviews often, we simply do not have the time required and the Compareomatic database is there for that purpose.


I had no idea that page was there and I doubt any other users do either. The ONLY link to the "compareomatic" page (according to Google) is from an obscure forum post, so how were we supposed to find it? It is not linked to from any of the menus on the website.

See here:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=link%3Awww.pocketgpsworld.com%2Fcompareomatic%2Findex.php

The page however, is a very good idea (especially if the products were in rank-order) and should be linked to from the menu system and made much more obvious.[/url]


It certainly is linked correctly in the menu system. If you follow the GPS Hardware -> Comparisons links either from the top or the side the BT one is at the top of the list.

Regarding rankings and percentages this is a very difficult and often subjective way of reporting our findings. For instance your requirements for datalogging and multiple ports is specific to you. From the sales of the Trine it would seem as if it is only to a small minority of users. This is a very difficult area that has no answer that will satisfy everyone. I have been against reporting percentages or rankings for a long time and we have had some heated discussions in the team about it.

Going back to 2002 when I was reviewing the emtac I gave it 100% and justifiably so as it was the best and most advanced device, and performed faultlessly. In my opinion that was fully justified at the time. This was borne out by the fact that over 2 years later the Emtac was still up there as good as or better than the rest of the BT receivers.

As regards review equipment, I know you were not suggesting any improprietary between us and Holux, but I would like to let everyone know our review criteria.
    We do not and will not ask for or accept any form of payment for reviewing equipment.

    We do insist that all companies provide us with review samples to keep in order for us to assist users if there are any issues.

    A review is carried out by one of the team who has full editorial control over the review, the company providing the sample for review are not allowed to make any editorial contribution.

    At our discretion we may use images or specifications from the supplier, but never PR unless it is clearly marked as being so (as in the NavMan article this week).

    We also use the equipment aggressively and extensively over the period of about a month. This is the reason that we often have our reviews published some time after the other sites do.

    All of us working on this site have "Day Jobs". A very significant amount of our free time is dedicated to this site on a voluntary basis.

I realise that what we write is taken as the basis for people's decisions on investing in the technology, but we write from individual experiences. This can sometimes not cover the useage model of some people, but we do our best.
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pikacu
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
phuse wrote:
One problem with these and some of the other newer SiRFIII devices is the USB charging port. This means that you cannot run a PDA and the GPS off the same charger (with dual iPAQ type cable). Is there any converter available which will convert a standard round iPAQ charger connector to the USB port? I realise that the improved battery life of the newer models means that it may be less necessary to run the GPS off power in use.

You could always use a 2-WAY cigarette lighter socket. I have a 4-WAY one , cost less than 10.


Pound land is selling for ..... guess what. 1 for 1 to 4 way adapter.
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ccsnet
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Joined: May 01, 2005
Posts: 101
Location: Lancashire

PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HOLUX UK Tech wrote:
Hi NickG

Wow! Your post makes for very interesting reading!

May we be so bold as to make a suggestion:

Instead of procrastinating why don't you share with everybody else your obviously vast experience about this subject and write a review yourself?

We would be especially interested in your scientific analysis of how a SiRF II receiver can outperform a SiRF III one.

We look forward to reading your wisdom. Oh and by the way, we're sorry we can't provide you with a GR-236 because that would be biasing your opinion!

Warmest regards,

The HOLUX UK Technical Support Team.

Tel: 0870 321 5929 x53
web: www.holux.co.uk

HOLUX Navigations Aids ".......Get there."
First of all its noice to see an OEM taking intrest in what the users think... too many companies are faceless now days.

I'm curently looking for a new GPS and some of the ones you guys have done recently are right up there ? Why ?

I need one to use with a PC in the car on an almost full time basis, I also want it USB powered to save on the batteries and I also want a hardware switch because... well for the exact reasons given in the review.

I also want a BT GPS to be used when I am forced in to using the company rent-a-wrek rather than my own and use the GPS with a PDA.

That been said I have a couple of comments.

1) I agree that a USB cable should be included in all packs for flashing the firmware at least for those users that will not use it with a PC

2) I would like to have seen an external antenna port to enable a permaintly placed receiver to be installed into the car... ie on the roof. While I relise this is not really needed I would ( along with others I am sure ) prefer to not have this excellent bit of kit on show... and yes you can take it out at night but what a pain if you lazy. ( PS Cant seen from the pics if I an wrong - If I am sorry Sad )

In all I think this is a pretty darn good bit of kit in terms of functionallity although I can not comment on its use because I have not tried it.

Terran
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ccsnet
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Joined: May 01, 2005
Posts: 101
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS I know this is a little off topic but have you got any plans to add TMC to your GPS units ?

Terran
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