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matthewj
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 Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:54 pm Post subject: Exclusivity |
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How long has TomTom had the exclusive for HD traffic? Is there anything tying the current provider of the service to TomTom beyond contract? Like they are a joint venture?
It just struck me that like Apple and AT&T, the data has a bigger value than a single satnav vendor. |
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st1967
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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It is an added service to get you to buy their SatNav devices, so why would they offer it to other vendors?
There aren't many others with a traffic offering, Sygic now do it for their mobile maps but I cannot get a review of how good the data is.
I've used Tom Tom Traffic since it was first available and back then it was shocking bad, however these days I totally trust it as they have certainly got their act together with it.
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MaFt
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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HD Traffic is TomTom's own data feed. They do not buy it in from other sources.
MaFt |
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WackyRaces
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: Exclusivity |
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| matthewj wrote: | | How long has TomTom had the exclusive for HD traffic? Is there anything tying the current provider of the service to TomTom beyond contract? Like they are a joint venture? |
TomTom only in fact have an exclusive with Vodafone on the concept of HD Traffic so far as I am aware (i.e. Vodafone presumably couldn't provide that data to another Satnav firm under the terms of their contract with TomTom). I don't think that it would be possible to patent the idea of working out traffic movement speeds from tracking the movement of individual mobile phone handsets between mobile phone transmitters though. Therefore as far as I am aware there is nothing to stop Garmin partnering with O2 and other major satnav firms like Navman/Mio partnering with Orange and/or TMobile.
This recent customer review on the Garmin Nuvi 1690 at www.notcot.co.uk/garmin-nuvi-1690-sat-nav-with-live-traffic-services-and-uk-europen-mapping/ shows that Garmin is making a lot of progress in the area of Live services (including things like airline flight arrivals as well as weather) and that they are also using the EDGE 3G data protocol rather than crappy old GPRS as TomTom are.
It must be only a matter of time before Garmin come out with their own equivalent of HD Traffic and I suspect it will actually be a lot better than TomTom's offering by actually working without the need for constant user interventions, reboots, software reinstalls and unit returns to the manufacturer for SIM card exchanges. 
I won't be buying another TomTom satnav unit unless I become aware of very substantial cultural changes in the way the company is run that properly deals with their current lackadaisical approach to software development and database quality.
There is a better review on the 1690 and the Garmin Hot Traffic system (apparently still mainly supported by the Trafficmaster system but updating much more often than RDS-TMC) at www.trustedreviews.com/car-tech/review/2010/01/18/Garmin-nuvi-1690-Sat-Nav/p1 |
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Darren
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: Exclusivity |
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| matthewj wrote: | How long has TomTom had the exclusive for HD traffic? Is there anything tying the current provider of the service to TomTom beyond contract? Like they are a joint venture?
It just struck me that like Apple and AT&T, the data has a bigger value than a single satnav vendor. |
As MaFt has said, HD Traffic is TomTom's own invention and their service. whilst they currently partner with Vodafone (in the UK) for the data side of the system, and share floating data from other Vodafone users, the system is not tied to them.
Navigon already have a similar system on their connected devices.
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Darren Griffin
Last edited by Darren on Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Darren
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: Exclusivity |
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| WackyRaces wrote: | This recent customer review on the Garmin Nuvi 1690 at xxxxxx
[snip]
There is a better review on the 1690 and the Garmin Hot Traffic system at xxxxxxxxx |
Is there a particular reason why you choose to link to these other reviews when we have a far better, more comprehensive, and better researched review of that device on this site here?
The first link you posted isn't a review at all, simply a blog post with affiliate links to Amazon. The user comments that the site displays are simply scraped from Amazon and not, as clearly they intend people to believe, comments posted on the blog site. The second is the kind of review all too typical of sites such as that, Stuff, T3, et al and is little more than a re-hash of Garmin's PR material. If you like that kind of review then we're wasting our time.
If you have links to reviews of genuine use to the readers then great, otherwise, we're not here to give sites such as them undeserved publicity.
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WackyRaces
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: Exclusivity |
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| Darren wrote: | | As MaFt has said, HD Traffic is TomTom's own invention and their service. whilst they currently partner with Vodafone (in the UK) for the data side of the system, and share floating data from other Vodafone users, the system is not tied to them. |
It seems that TomTom have patented the HD Traffic system and this is why their competitors are being so slow to respond. As its a patented system this probably means those competitors will have to engineer a different process to monitor traffic flows and/or other mobile phone networks will have to also try to develop such alternative traffic flow monitoring systems.
See http://ar2007.tomtom.com/pat.html
| Quote: | TomTom HD Traffic
The launch, initially onto the Dutch market, of High Definition Traffic (HD Traffic™) marked an important milestone for TomTom, with the introduction of a revolutionary new traffic information system.
Developed in partnership with Vodafone, HD Traffic uses patented technology to convert anonymous, raw GSM signalling data into accurate, real-time information on the volume, speed and direction of mobile phones travelling in cars throughout the road network. This gives drivers roughly ten times more road coverage and up to five times more frequent traffic updates than traditional traffic information sources. TomTom HD Traffic information is factored into the route calculation providing users with the fastest route possible. |
But then of course Microsoft has been suing TomTom over alleged patent infringements in relation to its use of the Linux kernel. Ultimately it all seems to come down to who has the biggest bank balance to pay the legal bills..... |
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xtraseller
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:47 pm Post subject: HD Traffic |
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The TomTom HD Traffic on the GO 1000 is great - especially for people like me who are more often than not in areas with no TMC reception and then driving roads not covered by the not fit for purpose TMC offering
It made my daily choice of using the TomTom over the Garmin 3790 an easy one
If Garmin did have a similar system (and not just Trafficmaster data sent via 3G which doesn't solve the problem or come anywhere close) then probably the cute look and feel of the Garmin would win me over. Plus the slightly superior map data
I think Garmin got to do something to catch up
And with the PND market shrinking, and licensing where the money is, it is not outside the realms of possibility (probability) that sooner or later TomTom will (should) license their service for a good amount of cash from the likes of Garmin and enable it on all those smartphone apps too - surely an easier way to make a few pounds than making PNDs alone!
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WackyRaces
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: Exclusivity |
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| Darren wrote: | | Is there a particular reason why you choose to link to these other reviews when we have a far better, more comprehensive, and better researched review of that device on this site here? |
Clearly it was that false god known as Google that led me there your honour. In future I will make sure not to quote the works of any more false prophets and to only quote those published by the Oracles of wisdom participating in this website. |
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Darren
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:23 pm Post subject: Re: Exclusivity |
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| WackyRaces wrote: | | Clearly it was that false god known as Google that led me there your honour. In future I will make sure not to quote the works of any more false prophets and to only quote those published by the Oracles of wisdom participating in this website. |
Not what I asked but close enough. No issue with links when they are of worth.
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exportman
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Not HD Traffic, but Google maps has a traffic report on the motorway network using google maps you can add a traffic layer that give a good indication of the traffic flow |
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WackyRaces
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| exportman wrote: | | Not HD Traffic, but Google maps has a traffic report on the motorway network using google maps you can add a traffic layer that give a good indication of the traffic flow |
But what is their data source? My bet would be Trafficmaster.
Anyhow as TomTom offer all their traffic data including HD Traffic free of charge at http://routes.tomtom.com/ to plan a route there doesn't seem much point in using the inferior Google equivalent. |
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Darren
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| WackyRaces wrote: | | Anyhow as TomTom offer all their traffic data including HD Traffic free of charge at http://routes.tomtom.com/ to plan a route there doesn't seem much point in using the inferior Google equivalent. |
exportman was referring to Google Navigation on Android. NOT Google Maps on the web, so Routes.TomTom would not apply in this case.
But it is safe to assume that HD Traffic is not the sole preserve of TomTom. They may have patented behind the scenes stuff but the core tech is something anyone can emulate as Navigon have.
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matthewj
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:19 am Post subject: |
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Thanks all - illuminating responses. FWIW, EDGE is 2.5G, not 3G, but reasonably faster than plain old 2G. That they have a patent is going to hinder competition, but I'm sure they'd allow others to use the data so long as they had it as "The TomTom HD Traffic subscription" on their devices. That would be popular. 
Looks like they invested in a winner then for now. Let's hope they can milk it and reform some of their other practices to give themselves a solid win. |
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WackyRaces
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| matthewj wrote: | | Let's hope they can milk it and reform some of their other practices to give themselves a solid win. |
I'm rather doubtful that TomTom is likely to change its ways over some of the practices that annoy many of us (including never properly fixing serious and frequently reported Navcore bugs, failing to properly maintain the quality of their databases and ripoff high charges for minor revisions to an electronic map you already own compared to fairly cheap Lifetime map update options that now exist with Garmin) as a leopard is rarely capable of changing its spots............. |
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