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Joined: 18/08/2003 22:18:21 Posts: 117 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 6:03 pm Post subject: GPS 2.09
I see from support section on TT site that that have released 2.09 as
being latest version of their BT software.
Anyone tried it yet and more importantly does it allow other gps software to run without a hitch?
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 6:08 pm Post subject:
When did that sneak out! We will naturally be testing this now we know it's there. As long as you have the previous version you've nothing to lose by trying it. If you experience any problems just uninstall and revert to 2.08 or 2.07.
I'll post a quick news item to let everyone know, and then I'm going to get friendly with a 20yr old single malt ;) _________________ Darren Griffin
UPDATE
TomTom have yet again, even after specific technical advise from the Pocket GPS World Team have gone ahead and released another version of their GPS applet with full knowledge that it will break all other GPS applications that wish to talk to a Bluetooth GPS.
TomTom's GPS driver constantly holds open a connection to the Bluetooth stack on the Pocket PC which results in a failure with any other application wanting to talk to a Bluetooth GPS.
This really does make me angry, TomTom really do know what they are doing and I have spoken with two people direct about this problem at TomTom and yet they still release a version that screws up any other GPS application wanting to talk Bluetooth.
Okay, as before with 2.08 here is the fix
1. Go into START | SETTINGS | REMOVE PROGRAMS
2. You should see a program called "TomTom ~ GPS" (without quotes)
3. Tap REMOVE and answer YES
4. The new TomTom Wizard will appear asking you to reset the Pocket PC, tap the OK button.
Now you will have a fixed connection and you will be able to use other applications again with your Bluetooth GPS Receiver and not be confined to just TomTom Navigator 2.
Joined: 26/09/2002 08:03:29 Posts: 75 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:05 pm Post subject:
I also tried the new 2.09 GPS software and had the same problems, i.e. TTN would not work all I got was the message screen to install maps....????
How can a company release some software that will stop their product from working :x
Anyway I just renamed the .exe file to .exe1 and the .exe0 file to .exe and all seems OK so far.
Joined: 17/05/2003 02:26:21 Posts: 3747 Location: Bedfordshire, UK
Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 11:23 pm Post subject:
There's numerous problems with the GPS 2.09 release. I'm going to deal with TomTom Wizard and TomTom GPS separately.
The most serious problem in this in my opinion is that the TomTom Wizard wanted to replace two Bluetooth related DLLs on my iPAQ 3970 (running the 4.00.08 Pocket PC 2003 ROM) with earlier versions.
It wanted to replace:
BtCoreIf.dll 12/05/2004 21:54 with a version modified 10/03/2003 15:53
and
BtSdkCE30.dll modified 12/05/2003 21:54 with a version modified 10/03/2003 15:55.
I selected No to both - I don't want applications messing with the Bluetooth stack I have in ROM - particularly installing earlier DLLs in place of up to date ones. If you accepted the changes, there's no easy way back except for a hard reset and restore from backup that doesn't include those DLLs (Sprite Backup is useful here - you can do a restore omitting selected files). Without knowing precisely why these DLLs were being replaced, what the "new" versions were supposed to do and what machines, OS and ROM versions they were for, there's no way I'd install them. The "new" versions could easily disable Bluetooth on machines using the Widcomm stack until a hard reset.
It's possible that on some Pocket PC 2002 machines using the Widcomm stack (such as Bluetooth equipped iPAQs), that these DLLs will silently install, being dated later than those in ROM - I can't remember whether an install that attempts to overwrite a ROM file always causes a prompt to be thrown up or not. I have a feeling this isn't an issue as you're always prompted when installing a file in RAM that will take the place of one in ROM until the next hard reset, but I'm not completely sure.
I wonder if this TomTom Wizard component (taking 542K of precious RAM) was written for the iPAQ 1940 / TomTom Navigator 2 / TomTom Bluetooth GPS bundle and has inadvertently leaked into the GPS 2.09 release. The Bluetooth DLLs may be related to the listed 1940 fix for GPS 2.09 - or even the other iPAQ Bluetooth fixes, but I feel strongly that no application should change anything to do with a Pocket PC's Bluetooth stack without asking express permission first and without providing a way to undo the change other than a reset. I think we've already found the 'correct' answer to the Bluetooth browser issue on machines using recent Widcomm stacks in the other thread - a single registry key that needs changing. Maybe this Wizard changes it automatically.
In fact, I'm so worried about what the Wizard has done that I've just hard reset and am restoring my backup from 4am this morning when I've posted this - even though I didn't install the 'new' Bluetooth DLLs.
Installing TomTom Wizard removed a wanted item from my Start Menu to make way for TomTom Wizard, and disabled Program Bar (from Battery Pack 2004) to make way for the TomTom Today Screen item. Program Bar completely disappeared from the Items screen in the Today control panel.
Actually running TomTom Wizard from the Start Menu throws up the screen already mentioned about needing to load a map - all you can do is press OK.
If you've installed TomTom Wizard and you want rid of it, Start, Settings, System tab, Remove Programs, tap TomTom Wizard and press Remove and you've got rid of that garbage - at which point you can put your Start Menu back to normal (Start, Settings, Personal tab, Menus) and, if it's been changed and hasn't, as happened on my machine when I uninstalled TomTom Wizard, changed back after the uninstall, your Today Screen back to normal (Start, Settings, Personal tab, Today, Items tab). However, this is not going to reverse the change of the Bluetooth DLLs on machines that do use the Widcomm Bluetooth stack (on machines that don't use the Widcomm stack, those DLLs aren't used and should uninstall cleanly).
You can't deselect TomTom Wizard in the TomTom installer - if you choose to install GPS 2.09 it is automatically selected. However, you can opt out of installing it (which I highly recommend) as follows:
When the Add/Remove Programs window pops up in ActiveSync, you will be asked if you want to install all pending installations to the default application install directory. Choose No, then Cancel on the next dialog. You can then start Add/Remove Programs from the Tools menu in ActiveSync. Put a tick next to "TomTom ~ GPS" only and if you haven't chosen to automatically install to the default installation directory, choose to install to Main Memory when prompted.
If you want, you can select "TomTom Wizard" in the Add/Remove Programs feature of ActiveSync and press the Remove button - that will prevent you from inadvertently installing it.
We then turn to the actual GPS 2.09 component. I quite understand Dave's incandescence that they haven't fixed the Bluetooth GPS issues. I can't test that the problem is still there, as I don't have a Bluetooth GPS, but it seems pretty outrageous that this is not fixed after all the problems GPS 2.08 caused.
I presume the partial uninstall of TomTom GPS that Dave mentions (it takes two uninstalls to fully uninstall from 2.08 onwards and he's only suggesting you carry out one and the mandatory soft reset afterwards) gets rid of the interference with the Bluetooth stack. The actual GPS component remains installed until you uninstall a second time.
Even if you follow my suggested installation route, you'll find that one random item has been kicked off the Start Menu (in my test, it's usually Notes) to make way for TomTom GPS. On Pocket PC 2002 it's possible that you'll just find TomTom GPS added to the Start Menu, possibly making it over-long.
You can fix either of these issues using the aforementioned Menus Control Panel - or if you have finished up with a right mess that can't be sorted out there, carefully moving items around between \Windows\Start Menu and \Windows\Start Menu\Programs on your Pocket PC. In my testing, I finished up with duplicate TomTom GPS shortcuts, because the uninstaller for GPS 2.09 only looks to remove the shortcut from the Start Menu. The fix is to delete TomTom GPS.lnk from \Windows\Start Menu.
Come on, TomTom - how about pulling this mess and releasing GPS 2.10 with these problems fixed?
Joined: 17/05/2003 02:26:21 Posts: 3747 Location: Bedfordshire, UK
Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 11:36 pm Post subject:
I'm going to do a Dave with my warning - in case people don't plough through the earlier long message of mine
Installing GPS 2.09 with the default settings installs TomTom Wizard, which, amongst other things, prompts you to change two Bluetooth DLLs for different (and possibly earlier) versions on machines that use the Widcomm Bluetooth stack, including most if not all Bluetooth iPAQs. Installing these DLLs might cause Bluetooth problems which could require a hard reset to solve.
It is unclear precisely what these DLLs change, and precisely which machines, ROM versions and Operating Systems they're aimed at, which is why I'm so concerned about being asked to install them.
For more details, and a way to install GPS 2.09 without the TomTom Wizard, read my earlier message in this thread. I also recommend Dave's warning about how to stop GPS 2.09 interfering, as GPS 2.08 also does, with the Bluetooth stack on your Pocket PC such that you can't use your Bluetooth GPS in other applications.
Joined: Nov 14, 2003 Posts: 2143 Location: Surrounded by A1, M1 & M25
Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 9:56 am Post subject: DLLs etc
The DLLs that the GPS 2.09 update are trying to add are not dated 10th March 2003 (10/03/2003 -UK format) , they are dated 3rd October 2003 (03/10/2003 -UK format), maybe some people have their date format set to another countries standard.
They are from Widcomm and are later versions (1.4.1.74) than the latest supplied by HP (1.4.1.58) for the Ipaq 5550. So far they have had no noticeable effect on the bluetooth stack. However that is no guarantee for other Ipaq models and there was no overwrite warning given on my Ipaq.
I actually like the large TomTom item on my Today page and removing the TomTom Wizard uninstalls it. If you want to keep it, go to the Program Files\Navigator directory and rename the ~4.5KB TomTom Navigator.exe (really the Wizard) to something else and rename the ~1.06MB TomTom Navigator.exeo to TomTom Navigator.exe. All works as normal after that.
You will need to reset your Today and Start Menu's to how you want them.
It appears that the Wizard is there with pictures to help you set-up your GPS device, but it does not work.
Overall this is a very rushed out piece of software that only seems to add a nice item to the Today menu.
Joined: 17/05/2003 02:26:21 Posts: 3747 Location: Bedfordshire, UK
Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: DLLs etc
<sigh> I wrote this reply, and Internet Explorer crashed when I pressed Preview - so I lost all manner of things, including my session cookie and hence my ability to view messages since I last visited.
MrT wrote:
The DLLs that the GPS 2.09 update are trying to add are not dated 10th March 2003 (10/03/2003 -UK format) , they are dated 3rd October 2003 (03/10/2003 -UK format), maybe some people have their date format set to another countries standard.
They are from Widcomm and are later versions (1.4.1.74) than the latest supplied by HP (1.4.1.58) for the Ipaq 5550. So far they have had no noticeable effect on the bluetooth stack. However that is no guarantee for other Ipaq models and there was no overwrite warning given on my Ipaq.
I can't see how you're right on the dates. There was a typo in my original message - 2004 should have been 2003. However, if you want to think they're in US format, that would make the dates of the DLLs in ROM (both sets of dates came from the dialog asking me if I wanted to replace the DLLs) 5 December 2003. HP created the 4.00.08 ROM for the 3970 in June or thereabouts. I had the CD in my possession in September 2003!
The regional settings on my iPAQ are English (United Kingdom), and the times are in 24 hour clock format, which is used in English (United Kingdom), but not in English (United States).
Not even all the Pocket PC 2003 iPAQs that have Bluetooth are on the same Bluetooth stack version. Some, including the 5550, have had an upgrade issued to 1.4.1.58 (which if you follow an 8 with a bracket becomes a smiley unless you disable smilies in the post!), others, including my 3970, are still on 1.4.1.06.
I suspected they were later DLLs in the 1.4.1 series with incorrect timestamps. Indeed, once I'd decided to hard reset, I did try them briefly, and my Bluetooth stack still appeared to work. That was hardly an exhaustive test, though - and I didn't feel comfortable with them in case I was storing up trouble for the future that may eventually finish in needing a hard reset. I don't even use a Bluetooth GPS right now, though I may well buy a Bluetooth slipper for my HI-303MMF.
Whilst it's possible to build different CAB files for Pocket PC 2003 and Pocket PC 2002, and let ActiveSync choose the right one, TomTom haven't in this case. The Widcomm stack on some Pocket PC 2002 devices, including the 397x and 387x, also the CompactFlash with Bluetooth expansion pack, is very different to the Pocket PC 2003 one (only the 545x got the later stack which is much more like the Pocket PC 2003 one).
Judging by the file sizes of the CAB files (I haven't delved any more deeply than that), it looks as if all ARM based devices will get the DLLs. Maybe the names don't conflict with those in any PocketPC 2002 version of the Widcomm stack, but I can't easily check that (at least not without downgrading my 3970 to 2.10 ROM, which is a pain). At the very least, they're likely a waste of memory under Pocket PC 2002. At worst, they could disable Bluetooth until a hard reset - hence my warning. There's a lot of different Widcomm stack versions out there, particularly when you realise that many of the CompactFlash Bluetooth cards that people use under Pocket PC use a Widcomm stack. Do these DLLs really work with (or at least not interfere with) all of them?
I don't like being asked to change system DLLs without a good reason, and particularly not without a list of machines and ROM versions to which the upgrade should be applied (with reasons as to why!). Uninstallation is at best tricky and at worst impossible - I could take a backup using Sprite Backup, hard reset, and restore without those two files included, but that assumes they haven't made any changes to the Registry or configuration files that will cause problems after they're removed.
I was also mindful of a warning issued by another software vendor, mobem, whose mPhone program I used to use (I found it crashed when using Bluetooth on my 3970 under Pocket PC 2003, and replaced it with smart GSM, which I was much happier with anyway). Take a look at http://www.mobem.com/products/mphone26/qtour/6310/5450_mp_setup.htm - in step 3, there's specific advice against installing an apparently earlier Widcomm Bluetooth DLL on at least one device.
If TomTom come up with a list of machines for which the upgrade is relevant, and explain what it does, I'll install it. It'll be even better if they produce code that automagically checks both the device type and the installed Widcomm stack version, then either installs the upgrade or deletes the DLLs uninstalled if they're not needed or could potentially disrupt the Bluetooth stack. After all, they seem to take 200KB of memory - and for many of us memory is in relatively short supply. I had considered upgrading to a 5550, but will probably wait one more generation at least. (Unfortunately my muscles are getting worse, and my 3970 plus expansion pack plus 802.11b card soon sets up painful spasms in my arms; it's too heavy, really).
If there are problems with the ROM Bluetooth stacks, I'd far rather pressure was put on HP to release XIP upgrades to replace the Bluetooth DLLs in ROM. I believe there's a problem if an XIP Bluetooth upgrade is eventually released that includes later versions of these DLLs than the RAM loaded versions - for those that have loaded these DLLs in RAM, there may be no way to remove the RAM loaded versions and switch back to the ROM ones except for a hard reset (and possibly a selective restore without those DLLs if you have Sprite Backup or iPAQ Backup).
MrT wrote:
I actually like the large TomTom item on my Today page and removing the TomTom Wizard uninstalls it. If you want to keep it, go to the Program Files\Navigator directory and rename the ~4.5KB TomTom Navigator.exe (really the Wizard) to something else and rename the ~1.06MB TomTom Navigator.exeo to TomTom Navigator.exe. All works as normal after that.
You will need to reset your Today and Start Menu's to how you want them.
Fair enough - this one is a personal choice thing. My Today Screen is full enough already - with things I use. I've got a three line Program Bar (Battery Pack 2004), then PocketMon (Sprite Backup Premium Edition), a very large tAgenda area (a wonderful freeware replacement for the various Pocket Outlook plugins - it shows tasks, mail messages and six lines of forthcoming appointments as I've configured it), then GPRS Monitor's plugin, finally the MS Theme Switcher. My screen is full - and I can already fire up TomTom Navigator from Program Bar - the icon is top right, so it doesn't have to be struck that precisely.
MrT wrote:
It appears that the Wizard is there with pictures to help you set-up your GPS device, but it does not work.
Overall this is a very rushed out piece of software that only seems to add a nice item to the Today menu.
Indeed - I wonder whether it was aimed at the iPAQ 1940 based bundle, as I said earlier. It would make far more sense then including Bluetooth DLLs - as they'd be aimed at just one device that only, so far, has one ROM version.
As it is, I'm very uncomfortable with it wanting to replacing Widcomm Bluetooth DLLs, particularly as TomTom Wizard doesn't seem to do anything useful save for the Today Screen plugin. I realise that some of this is a matter of opinion - I've explained my views, also given a work-round to install GPS 2.09 without TomTom Wizard. Hopefully that's enough for people to make their own decisions.
Joined: 17/05/2003 02:26:21 Posts: 3747 Location: Bedfordshire, UK
Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:24 pm Post subject:
Thinking further, the two Widcomm Bluetooth DLLs may be to do with allowing Bluetooth GPSes to work on the XDA 2 (and rebadges thereof), which is one of the listed fixes for GPS 2.09. It could be that they're nothing to do with solving Bluetooth issues on iPAQs as I had originally thought - I was distracted by the knowledge that HP use the Widcomm Bluetooth stack rather than the Microsoft one on Pocket PC 2003.
No currently released ROM image for the XDA 2 has Bluetooth serial port support, which means you can't use an XDA 2 with a Bluetooth GPS without adding software to provide this support. I'm pretty sure the unofficial patch that is floating around on the Internet to add this support to the XDA 2 installs some Widcomm Bluetooth DLLs to get round this current limitation - though I'm unclear whether the DLLs have been licensed from Widcomm to be distrubuted for this purpose, or whether they've just been copied out of an iPAQ running Pocket PC 2003 and are being distributed unofficially.
If the real reason for these DLLs being in the GPS 2.09 package is support for Bluetooth GPS on the XDA 2, I'm even more bemused as to why the DLLs are in the TomTom Wizard component rather than in the GPS component.
Whatever the reason, I'm still not happy at Widcomm Bluetooth DLLs seemingly being installed on all Pocket PCs, irrespective of model, OS and ROM version and whether the machine even has Bluetooth hardware. This behaviour seems to be a potential source of Bluetooth problems for the future, even if they don't cause problems on any current hardware (so they worst they do is waste memory).
If an XDA 2 user, particularly one who hasn't installed the unofficial Bluetooth serial patch (or has hard reset and not reinstalled it afterwards), cares to follow my instructions earlier in the thread to install just GPS 2.09 without installing TomTom Wizard and see then if a Bluetooth GPS works, I'd be interested. Unfortunately I have access neither to an XDA 2 nor a Bluetooth GPS to try for myself.
An uninstall without a hard reset may not uninstall the unofficial patch fully, as you can't delete DLLs that are in use at the time. However, if you disable Bluetooth, soft reset, then uninstall the patch without enabling Bluetooth, that will probably remove the patch. The indications are that GPS 2.09 (presumably a full install, with TomTom Wizard included) does indeed allow an XDA 2 to use a Bluetooth GPS without the unofficial patch.
I asked TomTom about the problems after the 2.09 GPS upgrade on both my ipaq 3970 and my wife's 1940 and this is the response i got.They seen to want to blame the SD cards,but i dont use a sandisk card and both systems where fine until the upgrade !
Reply from TomTom:
Installing the GPS 2.09 should in no way affect whats on an SD card,maybe there is a corruption in the registry, try removing the maps and reinstalling them.
A few words about installation
Please ensure that the Navigator software is installed onto the internal memory of the PDA and NOT onto an SD/CF card.
Maps can be installed onto the SD card, regarding SD/CF cards the following may well be of interest to you:
We have received numerous reports regarding SD/CF cards.
If using a Sandisk SD card made in China Or other Chinese made cards.
Please exchange this for a new SDcard.
These can cause problems regarding reading speeds or worse corrupted files on the sdcard and are therefore not readable.”
These cards often work with other applications or in digital cameras etc but are not fast enough to read back data for the Tomtom software.
- Please make sure to format the CF/SD/MMcard and that it's not locked. (tool flashformat.http://www.cnetx.com/format/)
A good way to see if the problem is being caused by the storage card is to install a small 16mb map to the INTERNAL memory
of the PDA ,remove the storage card and then see if the software then performs normally.
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