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Joined: Jul 21, 2004 Posts: 2718 Location: Chelmsford, UK
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:52 pm Post subject:
Thought you might be interested in the following:
Richard Brunstrom, the Chief Constable of North Wales Police, claims that many more lives would be saved if there were more flexibility in where cameras can be sited. He said: "Parents often write to us and ask us to put a camera outside a school because the traffic is so dangerous. It’s very difficult to write back and say, 'Please let us know when your son is killed and then we can consider putting a camera there.'"
Joined: Mar 02, 2006 Posts: 384 Location: Bedford, England
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:34 pm Post subject:
In Spain, there is a village South of Valencia which has almost a mile of straight national route through the middle. About every hundred yards are pedestrian lights which are also linked to speed radar. If you exceed 50kph, the next light goes red, and you sit there for about a minute with the cars behind venting their spleen at being held up. Drive through the red light and you get photographed and the world drops on you from a great height.
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:04 pm Post subject:
robbrady wrote:
Richard Brunstrom says "It’s very difficult to write back and say, 'Please let us know when your son is killed and then we can consider putting a camera there.'"
I have a better idea for Mr Brunstrom. Teach children about the dangers of crossing the road. Stop, Look, Listen and stay alive. Also, how about you ask parents what they would rather see outside their school, a speed camera or a lollypop lady. I can tell you which one I would prefer outside the school my kids went to.
Of course there is one BIG problem with this. These things COST MONEY. Speed cameras MAKE MONEY. Which one do you think Mr Brunstrom prefers? :x _________________ Gone fishing!
Joined: Nov 09, 2004 Posts: 628 Location: West Yorkshire
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:15 pm Post subject:
robbrady wrote:
Thought you might be interested in the following:
Richard Brunstrom, the Chief Constable of North Wales Police, claims that many more lives would be saved if there were more flexibility in where cameras can be sited. He said: "Parents often write to us and ask us to put a camera outside a school because the traffic is so dangerous. It’s very difficult to write back and say, 'Please let us know when your son is killed and then we can consider putting a camera there.'"
I totally agree with this.
One of the reasons we are moving is due to the road outside our current house is so dangerous and we have three small children.
When I contacted the council about it they said they would not consdier taking any steps until two deaths have occured on the road.
there have actually been two deaths but in different sections of the road belonging to two different councils (within 100 yds of each other as well). Very frustrating.
When I asked him how he would feel if the next one was his wife or child he got very offended - the system does need to change to cater for situations like this. _________________ Thanks,
Joined: May 01, 2004 Posts: 706 Location: Monmouthshire
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:38 pm Post subject:
It seems that the camouflage of speed cameras is for nothing more than increasing revenue,if this is the case does not it seems that the next logical step would be to outlaw the use Gps data bases like parts of Europe
BTW there has been the 3-2-1 30 on the A472 into Usk for many years.
Dave _________________ TomTom one v1,tomtom one v 3,TT Start20,Garmin Oregon 300,Nuvi 300
Garmin Quest
Joined: Jul 21, 2004 Posts: 2718 Location: Chelmsford, UK
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject:
Hi Dave,
oddsock wrote:
this is the case does not it seems that the next logical step would be to outlaw the use Gps data bases like parts of Europe
Dave
Not sure if GPS databases are outlawed in parts of Europe, maybe you're thinking of radar detectors?
I've copied some info below from the Members Forum 'Speed Camera Database Questions And Answers' which you might find interesting.
Q. Are your speed camera warnings legal?
A. Yes, the official Government line is that most fixed cameras are installed at accident 'black spots' where four or more serious road accidents have occurred over a three year period. It is the joint policy of both the UK Department for Transport and the police to make the locations of these cameras as well known as possible. The Speed Camera Database (which also includes traffic light camera warnings) adds to this process by identifying the places where extra care should be taken. Not only do we receive additions and modifications from police forces, but we are also reliably informed that police officers 'unofficially' use our database. Officers are often treated more harshly when caught, especially by their superiors, so it is in their interest to be extra careful!
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Q. Do the Government support what you do?
A. Yes. The Road Safety Bill 2005 states: "The Government will not be prohibiting those devices that rely on Global Positioning System (GPS) technology to warn drivers of published camera sites or posted speed limits, as these complement the Government's policy to ensure that camera sites are visible and conspicuous to drivers, and so help deter excessive and inappropriate speeds on the roads." They also say "The road safety benefits are clear. The existing GPS systems can contain information including the location of all approved speed camera sites in the country and the speed limits that apply there. Providing this information to drivers can only improve the prospects of drivers amending their speeds in order to comply with limits at or near camera sites."
The RAC also support what we do. Edmund King, the executive director, said: "These alerts have clear road safety benefits. They provide drivers with a legitimate reminder that they should slow down, and prevent the need to keep taking their eyes off the road to check the speedometer
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Q. But then why have I read media reports that detectors are illegal?
A. The Government plans to include a ban on radar detectors in a forthcoming Road Safety Bill. The Department of Transport states: "Devices which detect or interfere with the proper functioning of such cameras have only one purpose: to tell drivers when they can break speed limits and get away with it. This is unacceptable, it prevents the police from carrying out their duties, and is a danger to other law-abiding road users." This has no relation whatsoever to the PocketGPSWorld.com database, the type of which the Government actively supports.
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Q. Haven't the Government said that they will be phasing out speed cameras?
A. No, they have said that they will be slowing down the growth. The overall volume of speed cameras will continue to grow, but not as fast as has recently been the case. Additionally, substantial increases in the numbers of red light cameras and mobile locations are predicted.
Very interesting! I'll ask a few people in the know at Cebit next week to get a bit more background on the laws of the various countries.
By the way, PocketGPSWorld.com has got a stand there for the first time -wish us luck! For anyone that's attending, please come and introduce yourself. Hall 11, Stand D14.
In the Times it said:
"Many partnerships believe that the rules are too restrictive. Last autumn, Richard Brunstrom, the Chief Constable of North Wales Police, said that many more lives would be saved if there were more flexibility in camera location.
He said: “Parents often write to us and ask us to put a camera outside a school because the traffic is so dangerous. It’s very difficult to write back and say, ‘Please let us know when your son is killed and then we can consider putting a camera there.’ ”
People DO indeed use the yellow paint as a warning, either of a fine risk, or of a danger area. Cameras are supposedly sited at danger zones, so if a motorist slows down for whatever reason at a camera site it is a good thing. I would not like to see Mr Brunsrtom having to say. " Sorry, but your child's death was one of those that happened soon after we camouflaged the speed cameras."
The yellow works: more people drive slower having seen the warning at the blackspot.
If a speed camera is attracting large amounts of fines, then maybe the speed limit there is not appropriately chosen. Most drivers drive sensibly, including many that exceed the limit by smallish margins.
Nao _________________ Too many people "search for the zero inside themselves". Sadly, many fail to find even that.
Joined: Nov 09, 2004 Posts: 628 Location: West Yorkshire
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:16 pm Post subject:
Naomi wrote:
”
I would not like to see Mr Brunsrtom having to say. " Sorry, but your child's death was one of those that happened soon after we camouflaged the speed cameras."
The yellow works: more people drive slower having seen the warning at the blackspot.
Nao
Totally agree - at the moment they are a deterrent and a warning. Start hiding them you will probably catch more people,make more money and save fewer lives. _________________ Thanks,
Joined: May 01, 2004 Posts: 706 Location: Monmouthshire
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:56 pm Post subject:
On the A48 Eastern Avenue just before the turn off to The University Hospital there is Gatso 666 @ 40 on the West bound lane only .Several hunderd yard before it is a large sign warning that a perminant camera is there .I think this is how it should be everywhere if it is the intention to slow traffic down rather than collect cash .
Dave _________________ TomTom one v1,tomtom one v 3,TT Start20,Garmin Oregon 300,Nuvi 300
Garmin Quest
so there we have it then, back to the dark old days of the hidden speed camera.
not happy with making millions out of us throu petrol, road tax etc...
they then do this as well.
well i hope they r ganna invest heavly in public transport!!
what with this and the planned introduction of pay as ya go toll roads,
what r they trying to do to us?
will this be the introduction of the cats eye speed camera ?
me thinx so.
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