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Joined: 20/08/2002 11:51:57 Posts: 3859 Location: Essex, UK
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:32 pm Post subject:
charlies wrote:
Personally, I admire the sellers enterprise, if they can make a few bucks from people guilable enough to buy from ebay without searching first, and providing it is legal, good on them
And you are right there. We have no problem with people selling legal data on eBay. But they are not.
The Speed Camera Database is not theirs to sell. It retains our copyright despite being distributed by Maplins. We have not granted our permission as copyright holders for it to be distributed.
I assume you are not condoning illeagal activities, but were simply assuming that the seller was acting within the law? _________________ Mike Barrett
If the item is the original and not a copy whats the prob?
Then they have ten original CD's!
Quote:
Even if it is a copy, to show the logos is not bad if the info is freely available and distributed publicly with no reestrictions on use.
FLAME ME NOW.....
Can't be bothered, your argument has no basis in reality.
Why is it theft, if it is publicly available? Is reading in a library theft?
The number of copies is irrelevent if it is public info with no copyright restrictions.
Why does it have no basis in reality?
I truly appreciate the work of pocketgps and MaFt etc, but this is purely a case of buy it you want it.
If you dont like it, copyright your material, but this would be to the detriment of the vast majority who research before they buy.
Accept chancers and appreciate they are not wasting our tax pounds by earning money however they feel fit (providing it is legal).
The main gripe here should be with Maplins and whether they are passing on the restrictions of sale. Even if they are, I see no restrictions on the websites for distribution, but people should not use the logos (and even this is not prohibited)
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:52 pm Post subject:
charlies wrote:
Is reading in a library theft?
No but photocopying a book and selling it is!
Quote:
The number of copies is irrelevent if it is public info with no copyright restrictions.
It is not public info, we hold copyright over the database.
Quote:
If you dont like it, copyright your material, but this would be to the detriment of the vast majority who research before they buy.
We have copyright, why is this to the detriment of users who can download it here for free?
Quote:
Accept chancers and appreciate they are not wasting our tax pounds by earning money however they feel fit (providing it is legal).
The main gripe here should be with Maplins and whether they are passing on the restrictions of sale. Even if they are, I see no restrictions on the websites for distribution, but people should not use the logos (and even this is not prohibited)
Our database is always accompanied by a licence.txt file which details the restrictions. They're not chancers when they breach copyright, they are thieves. _________________ Darren Griffin
Joined: Aug 10, 2005 Posts: 88 Location: Clitheroe, Lancs
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:09 am Post subject:
The terms and conditions are clearly printed on the CD, along with the textfile. There's no chance that this person has got their hands on ten copies, as each store has only been sent enough to cover current stock levels.
I believe the CDs have been produced with Garmin's approval as well.
Unfortunatey as long as eBay exists, there will always be people trying to profit from other peoples work.
Joined: Oct 07, 2004 Posts: 175 Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:42 am Post subject:
I hesitate to get stuck into this arguement (but will, anyway ).
I accept that if there is a licence restriction on the PGPSW database it would be wrong to sell on copies of the original. But are you saying that it is wrong to purchase the original (even if the purchase is for zero pounds) and then sell that on? After all the ownership is just passing from one person to another. (I hasten to say it is not me trying to sell it on eBay(or anywheere else) )
I know that, as far as software is concerned, the ownership remains with the developer, you just get the right to use it but I would not have thought a developer would get very far if he tried to stop you selling your copy on to someone else provided you removed the software from your own system(s). After all (again!) you might be upgrading to a later version and he wouldn't want to stop you doing that.
If you really cannot sell on software what about all of those who sell their old PCs with Windows 95 or whatever? Are they breaking the law?
Joined: Nov 04, 2005 Posts: 18 Location: Bedford UK
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:53 am Post subject:
It would appear that Charlies is one of these people that you meet in bars with no inkling of what they are discussing. Having written many contracts in my business life these are necessary to protect both parties from explotation.
What he does not appreciate is that the only reason he gets access to this free software is that agreements are put in place which allow us the free users to benefit. If this is then stolen by others and sold at any price this is indeed theft.
Obviously he does not understand, shame really especially the stupid statements about free enterprise (try reading some business text books if you want to know what it really means!!)
More strenght to Pocket GPS World and lets hope for a better informed forum membership
My point was, do Maplins make customers aware of the restrictions? That post does not mention anything on the cd about agreements.
Personally, I admire the sellers enterprise, if they can make a few bucks from people guilable enough to buy from ebay without searching first, and providing it is legal, good on them
caveot emptor!
or some other public school taught shite you can put in agreements to keep you in business :D (lawyers especially)
I don't admire their enterprise in this instance.
I do admire an enterprising manner in general - spotting a bargain, selling it for profit.
But exploiting a community spirit, where these things are distributed freely, for profit, I think is leeching offa community, and may well discourage such free traffic of information and work in the future.
Enterprise and profit - good.
Exploiting communities that distribute such information freely, by attempting to profit out of it - bad.
Bad - why? Because it's discourages the ethos by which it was created.
But I guess if all you care about is yourself, and are short-sighted, then so be it.
There is a license and it is very clear what users are and are not allowed to do.
END USER LICENSING AGREEMENT
PocketGPSWorld.com Ltd (incorporating pocketgpsworld.com and PocketGPSWorld.com) make no representations about the suitability or merchantability of the information contained within this database. The database and cameras within are provided "as is" without warranty of any kind.
PocketGPSWorld.com Ltd hereby disclaim all warranties and conditions with regard to this information, including all warranties and conditions of merchantability, whether express, implied or statutory, fitness for a particular purpose, title and non-infringement. The database is to be used for guidance only and not to allow you to break the law or circumvent any legal loop holes in the law. In no event shall PocketGPSWorld.com Ltd and/or its respective suppliers and developers be liable for any special, indirect, consequential damages, speeding fines, accidents, loss of life, and or loss of driving license from using this database, whether in an action or contract, by negligence or other tortuous action, arising out of or in connection with the use of this database, performance or information available within the database.
PRODUCT SERVING AGREEMENT
The database is free for END USER usage only. COMMERCIAL usages in any form, for profit or otherwise, require the purchase of a licence. This includes any re-packaging of our data be it in original or modified form with hardware or software and distribution of the database via any media or as an inducement to sell other items.
If you wish to use the data contained in the database, either in part or in whole, you are required to hold a valid licence. Details of our commercial licence rates can be obtained by emailing license@PocketGPSWorld.com . Please supply information concerning the proposed usage.
Using this database without the prior written authorisation of PocketGPSWorld.com Ltd amounts to stealing and pirating the intellectual property of PocketGPSWorld.com Ltd. We will take all necessary action to protect our copyright interests.
COPYRIGHT
The database and related graphics are only allowed to be published on PocketGPSWorld.com at http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/uksafetycameras.php. Any company or website that publishes this data on their website or service without our express permission are in breach of these terms and conditions and must remove it from their website or service immediately of further legal action will be taken.
As an END USER and/or COMPANY who is using or distributing this database, you agree to be bound by these terms and conditions. PocketGPSWorld.com Ltd and/or its respective suppliers may make improvements and/or changes in the database described herein and in the terms and conditions at any time without prior written warning.
Joined: Aug 10, 2005 Posts: 88 Location: Clitheroe, Lancs
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:19 am Post subject:
Lester_Burnham wrote:
charlies wrote:
My point was, do Maplins make customers aware of the restrictions? That post does not mention anything on the cd about agreements.
Personally, I admire the sellers enterprise, if they can make a few bucks from people guilable enough to buy from ebay without searching first, and providing it is legal, good on them
caveot emptor!
or some other public school taught shite you can put in agreements to keep you in business :D (lawyers especially)
I don't admire their enterprise in this instance.
I do admire an enterprising manner in general - spotting a bargain, selling it for profit.
But exploiting a community spirit, where these things are distributed freely, for profit, I think is leeching offa community, and may well discourage such free traffic of information and work in the future.
Enterprise and profit - good.
Exploiting communities that distribute such information freely, by attempting to profit out of it - bad.
Bad - why? Because it's discourages the ethos by which it was created.
But I guess if all you care about is yourself, and are short-sighted, then so be it.
You might like to check your facts a bit more closley.
Maplin approached Pocketgpsworld and Garmin asking if they would approve of a free CD containing the database, and all the garmin files needed to load it.
My point was, do Maplins make customers aware of the restrictions? That post does not mention anything on the cd about agreements.
Personally, I admire the sellers enterprise, if they can make a few bucks from people guilable enough to buy from ebay without searching first, and providing it is legal, good on them
caveot emptor!
or some other public school taught shite you can put in agreements to keep you in business :D (lawyers especially)
I don't admire their enterprise in this instance.
I do admire an enterprising manner in general - spotting a bargain, selling it for profit.
But exploiting a community spirit, where these things are distributed freely, for profit, I think is leeching offa community, and may well discourage such free traffic of information and work in the future.
Enterprise and profit - good.
Exploiting communities that distribute such information freely, by attempting to profit out of it - bad.
Bad - why? Because it's discourages the ethos by which it was created.
But I guess if all you care about is yourself, and are short-sighted, then so be it.
You might like to check your facts a bit more closley.
Maplin approached Pocketgpsworld and Garmin asking if they would approve of a free CD containing the database, and all the garmin files needed to load it.
Both companies had every chance to say no.
Eh?
What facts am I needing to check?
I've no issue with what Maplin are doing!
It's the other people flogging these disks on ebay I think is a little more than free enterprise. It's that activity I think is leeching off the community - not Maplin getting involved with pocketgpsworld, to distribute the CD freely with the product purchase.
That's what this thread is about, not Maplin's agreed arrangement.
hi all bought mine from maplins last week in a bit of a rush and not looking in to it more closely ie this site but maplins told me they were the only company that done the camera database and i could not get it anywhere else other then their cd as luck would have it it developed a fault so took it back and got money back went to pc world saved myself £30 i think what maplin told me was an underhanded way of making a sale
Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 15139 Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:41 am Post subject:
dougconran wrote:
If you really cannot sell on software what about all of those who sell their old PCs with Windows 95 or whatever? Are they breaking the law?
it all depends on the eula (end-user license agreement) - microsoft are a bit strange in that commercial versions CAN be sold on with a system, however if you have an OEM version then it lives and dies on one single harddrive. in theory this goes to say that if a hard drive fails you should legally purchase a new copy of windows if you had the oem version.
pocketgps are right to say that only one single person can use their cd and it can't be sold on. however, sadly, this won't stop people from doing it but they have the right to report it to ebay as copyright theft.
Joined: Oct 07, 2004 Posts: 175 Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:17 pm Post subject:
I have no problem whatsoever with not allowing punters to sell on something they got for free (PGPSW please note :D ) but if I've paid for something (and as far as Windows is concerned I certainly HAVE paid for it, even if the cost was bundled into the hardware purchase) I think that I should be allowed to sell it on to recoup some of my initial outlay, even if it is only the 'licence to use' that I'm selling on.
I suspect that any such licence restriction would be unenforceable in law plus I'm sure it must infringe my Human Rights in some respect.
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