Fugawi maps

[gingernut777]

[DavidW]

You're taking a statement from someone at TomTom Support that topographic maps have gone onto the wishlist as proof that the hardware is suitable. I think that's reading too much into the email you've got.

Someone in Support noting down your suggestion and passing it to the development team is a very different thing to the development team considering the demands of topographic software and the capabilities of the hardware, then making a definite decision as to whether or not the hardware is suitable. As I said earlier, the Go hardware is likely to be have been cost-reduced fairly aggressively; the market for PNDs such as Go is increasingly competitive.


If you accept the limitations on usage of the Go hardware away from a vehicle, as you apparently now do, that cuts the likely market for a topographic product on Go significantly. There certainly are Go owners who could make use of topographic mapping, but I maintain my concern that there isn't a sufficient market for the product to justify the development costs.

I'd think the number of Go users who use their Go in a 4x4 or other off-road vehicle and who are prepared to pay for topographic mapping is fairly small. I'd think there's more of a market for handheld GPS like functions, such as tracks, waypoints and a simple position read-out - but that hasn't appeared yet.


For use in the UK, the cost of licensing Ordnance Survey mapping is substantial, and makes up much of the cost of a topographic mapping product. Considering the limitations of the Go hardware, I'm not sure many people would justify that expenditure when they could have a much more flexible system based on other hardware - be it Pocket PC, Palm OS, or one of the handheld GPSes which has topographic mapping available. My feeling is that most topographic users are using Pocket PC.


I'm always interested in seeing products that make the best possible use of people's hardware - but I won't be holding my breath for topographic software on Go.



David

[gingernut777]

I'll believe the EXPERTS TomTom. They say IT CAN be done. They also say the GO's hardware IS CAPABLE, they know what it can or can't be used for,.

I'll look forward to seeing some sort of off roading map being produced.

So let's leave it to the Experts at TomTom.
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[DavidW]

TomTom have not said the hardware is suitable. Support have put the request onto the wishlist but that's a very different thing, as I said in my last post, from the development team confirming that a worthwhile topographic mapping product is feasible on the Go hardware.

Your reply from TomTom Support is here. It says that they'll pass your suggestion to their software developers - nothing more. It's not a promise to produce topographic mapping, nor does it confirm that it's technically feasible, however much you want to keep asserting it does. "Proof by repeated assertion" is not a form of proof at all.


It is very unlikely that whoever wrote to you at TomTom Support has developer level experience of Go. Such people, even in a small company (which TomTom is not these days) would not routinely be answering general support messages, especially not those that require any technical experience to answer. I have had contact from the TomTom developer team in response to a message sent to Support, but it wasn't in the direct reply I got from Support. One of the developers got in contact with me over that issue some weeks later.


I've never yet come across a Support department that doesn't keep a wishlist and pass it on to the development team; it's one of the easiest and cheapest ways of finding out what people are looking for in your products. Just because something goes on the wishlist doesn't mean it's implemented, I've already given a counter-example that shows this is not true.

If you want me to spell it out, someone once asked that a particular feature was added to one of my former employer's products - namely support for more general network hardware in one of our print servers so that there was support for a particularly unusual type of printer supported just by this one product on the customer's network - was rejected by the developers. To comply would have required the product to be extensively if not completely rewritten; the request broke one of the fundamental design decisions underlying the code.

Adding topographic mapping is pretty much asking for a completely separate software package to the street navigation one supplied with Go; it's a major undertaking just for the software development. The kind of software features needed are quite different to those for street navigation.


You can keep on making the same assertions, but there is no statement that the hardware is definitely suitable in the reply you posted in the forums, let alone any promise that the suggestion will go any further than the wishlist.


Further, if I subject this thread to the analysis of logical fallacies, quite apart from your repeated assertions (which are in no way proof that a feasibility study has been done - however much you use bold and SHOUT), I notice that you've given up arguing the general point, and are now arguing purely against one fairly incidental point - a so called straw man. You're attacking my contention that the hardware may not be suitable, rather than addressing the wider selection of problems that would have to be overcome to justify the cost of developing and marketing a topographic map product for Go. If my concerns about the suitability of the hardware are shown to be unfounded (as I have acknowledged they may be), that doesn't mean that a topographic mapping product will be released.

Your repeated references to the message from TomTom Support is an example of argumentum ad verecundiam - the fallacy of appeal to authority. I do not believe TomTom Support are an authority on developer level technical details of TomTom Go. I cannot prove this, but it's very unlikely that TomTom will waste money training user support personnel on technical design details of their products when they don't need this knowledge to do their job, nor is it likely that software developers are answering general support messages.

My experience is that those with the most detailed appreciation of what certain products are capable of are those that designed them; there are times in the job I've already referred to when I'd talk to colleagues who designed particular code segments or hardware as they would have a more instinctive understanding of the problem than I would.


Maybe you'd like to drop the whole argument now.


TomTom Support have put your suggestion of topographical mapping on the wishlist - I agree. A topographic mapping product for Go may be released at some point - I agree. Topographic mapping on Go would extend user choice and the flexibility of the Go product for existing owners and should be welcomed if it does appear - I agree.

I will also agree that the lack of announcement of a topographic mapping product for Go to date doesn't mean that there's not one in development.


However, as I have explained in this thread, I have grave doubts that such a product, given its likely rather limited applications compared to topographic mapping software already on the market for hardware in a not significantly more expensive price bracket, is economically feasible.

Even if the doubts I have as to technical feasibility are unfounded, economic unfeasibility means there will be no topographic mapping for Go. As I have acknowledged all along, the hardware may be suitable for topographic mapping software, but knowing the pressure to keep costs down on a product like Go, it may be that one consequence of "cost down" is that the hardware isn't really suitable for topographic mapping.


I return to where I came in. If you want topographic mapping in addition to street navigation, the best course of action is to buy hardware for which both types software product are available (because street navigation and topographic mapping are so different, I am not aware of a single software product that provides both - it's a little like the difference between vector and bitmap graphics software). Opinions clearly differ as to whether we will see topographic mapping available for Go, but there's plenty of reasons to conclude that we won't and, I contend, few that we will.

On the other hand, if your only use for a GPS system is street navigation and you would have no use for a PDA, Go is an excellent choice that is well worth considering.



David

[gingernut777]

Like i stated let's leave it to TomTom, They are the Experts in this matter.



argumentum ad hominem
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[gingernut777]

[rkm_hm]

Please chaps, this is all getting a bit out of hand.

All we know is that TomTom have agreed to add it to the wish list. It is likely - though by no means certain - that it is technically feasible. It will be a commercial decision by TomTom whether or not it happens - based on their perception of increased sales versus development costs. There is currently no commitment on their part to do anything other than "look at it".

Any further assertions can only be based on pure speculation - unless either of the protagonists has a direct route into TomTom's mind - which I doubt!

[gingernut777]

[rkm_hm]

[gingernut777]

[rkm_hm]

[DavidW]

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