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missing_user
Joined: Aug 30, 2008
Posts: -7
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 Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| Andy_P2002 wrote: | Before too many people panic, Strumbles issue will only affect owners of Satnavs which only trigger alerts dependant on the sped you are travelling.
Most other brands will show a picture of the speed limit (or indicate it on the screen) as per the signs you passed on the roadside.
If your particular vehicle means you have to drive at a lower speed, then you would presumably do the same mental adjustment when you see it on your sat-nav screen as when you see one by the side of the road.
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It affect all Satnavs/databases that show a speed value replacing the 'National speed limit' sign that you pass on the roadside. It does not show you 70mph on the roadside.
These camera locations [in the screen shot-a dual carriageway] are shown as 70mph but represent a speed for HGVs of 50mph, for other classes [other than cars] a speed of 60mph.
My original introduction:-
| Quote: | The UK PGPSW database reflects the 'National Speed Limit' for cars and motorcycles.[within the blue border on the screenshot below]
It does not reflect the 'National Speed Limit' for other classes of vehicles [as can be seen within the red border] |
My intention was to help those of us who happen to drive the 'other classes' to realise that the database is car based, and not to rely on the shown values [audibly or visually] for outside the 'built-up areas'.
As a Verifier, I verified or submitted all three in the screenshot as 70mph instead of 'National Speed Limit'  |
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pcaouolte
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Joined: Dec 27, 2006
Posts: 998
Location: South Lincs, UK.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Andy_P2002 wrote: |
Also, I maintain that there's no way a normal Gatso/Monitron etc. can "flash" at a different speed dependant on the vehicle type, and although a copper with a mobile gun COULD work out that a particular vehicle should be going at a slower speed than the posted limit, I bet most of the time he wouldn't bother, he just waits for the big red light to flash (or whatever happens!) to say someone's gone over the set speed on his gun.
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Local to me (Lincolnshire) the mobile speed cameras (the ones in vans in a lay by) seem to specialise in picking out vans in a stream of traffic travelling at 60mph on a single carriageway and sending them tickets because they are exceeding their 50mph limit. We get these tickets fairly regularly for the fleet of transit vans at work. |
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Andy_P
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005
Posts: 19991
Location: West and Southwest London
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| pcaouolte wrote: |
Local to me (Lincolnshire) the mobile speed cameras (the ones in vans in a lay by) seem to specialise in picking out vans in a stream of traffic travelling at 60mph |
Fair enough. Thanks for the info!
| strumble wrote: |
It affect all Satnavs/databases that show a speed value replacing the 'National speed limit' sign that you pass on the roadside. It does not show you 70mph on the roadside. |
For those devices then, simplest thing to do.... make an NSL sign to replace the "70" one.
Or ask GerryC nicely and he will probably make one for you. |
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Darren
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Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40
Posts: 23848
Location: Hampshire, UK
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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So assuming we replaced '70' with 'NSL' in our POI file names, how would a device such as the Garmin handle that?
I'm not suggesting we will, just curious?
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missing_user
Joined: Aug 30, 2008
Posts: -7
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | So assuming we replaced '70' with 'NSL' in our POI file names, how would a device such as the Garmin handle that? |
Visually it would cope with any 70mph limits on dual carriageways and motorways but not on single carriageways 60mph limit. Visually the problem is not just a Garmin one.
I cannot see the idea coping with the speed and overspeed problems.
Last edited by missing_user on Thu May 01, 2008 12:24 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Darren
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Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40
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Location: Hampshire, UK
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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Your suggestion requires us to create an additional database for over 25 file formats and many more versions, that is more than a little extra work.
So much more work, a great deal more support issues as a result and doubtless more confusion. And all this to fulfil demand that is so far unproven.
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GerryC
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Mar 01, 2005
Posts: 1513
Location: West Mids
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Andy_P2002 wrote: | For those devices then, simplest thing to do.... make an NSL sign to replace the "70" one.
Or ask GerryC nicely and he will probably make one for you. |
I'll make one if people want it. Reading through the thread the only surprise was that it took until the middle of page 2 for the suggestion to appear. 
Personally, I would suggest some instructions are posted detailing how the files could be renamed/merged to create lower limits based on individuals needs - I understand Garmins would probably have to merge files as it uses the filename to get the speed limit info whereas TomToms would get away with copying the icon files as necessary.
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bmuskett
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Joined: May 12, 2006
Posts: 710
Location: Stockport, Cheshire
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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I can see the point of posting the warning, and the instructions for converting the standard databases and icons if someone is willing to do that, but I definitely don't see the need to generate separate downloads for all of these. Too much work for too small an audience.
If you're driving something with non-standard speed limits you should be aware of that and drive accordingly. Those lower limits are there for a reason. I drive a 7.5 tonne truck occasionally and although I use my TomTom in there I wouldn't rely on that for speed warnings, I'm checking my speed and thinking about the different limits all the time. |
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missing_user
Joined: Aug 30, 2008
Posts: -7
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:33 am Post subject: |
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I have drawn your attention to a problem with the database.
It is obvious that it not important to the majority of members so I do not expect the database to reflect my reservations.
Last edited by missing_user on Thu May 01, 2008 8:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Pocketgps
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Joined: Nov 16, 2004
Posts: 2145
Location: Midlands, UK
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 1:38 am Post subject: |
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| strumble wrote: | I have drawn your attention to a problem with the database.
It is obvious that it not important to the majority of members so I do not expect the database to reflect my reservations. |
I totally agree with what you have said.
At the end of the day this is now a database that has to be purchased.
I think that there must be many users that download the files but do not know about this problem because they don't use the forums.
A notice placed on the download pages would help to inform them of this.
Surely the whole purpose of a paid for database to provide the correct information to all users, not just the majority. |
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Tim Buxton
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: 14/09/2002 20:56:18
Posts: 5231
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 6:37 am Post subject: |
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| strumble wrote: | | It affect all Satnavs/databases that show a speed value replacing the 'National speed limit' sign that you pass on the roadside. It does not show you 70mph on the roadside. |
When I was in Scotland over Christmas and New Year, I saw plenty of '70' signs on the roadside, albeit mainly on the entrance sliproads for mororways.
I suppose that those who use bridge-height (and weight) database(s) will have to have extra guidance for these, too. I mean, they might be laden in one direction but not the other, or they might be driving a different height vehicle one day but not the next. Where will it all end?
Dumbing down in the extreme, IMO.
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GPS_fan
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 04, 2007
Posts: 2789
Location: Hampshire, UK
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| Tim Buxton wrote: | | I suppose that those who use bridge-height (and weight) database(s) will have to have extra guidance for these, too. I mean, they might be laden in one direction but not the other, or they might be driving a different height vehicle one day but not the next. Where will it all end? |
Near where I work, there's an industrial estate which is home to a haulage company. On leaving this industrial estate, there's a railway bridge in one direction with a height restriction of 14'3". Turning the other way, there's a bridge with a weight limit.
Passing over this bridge in one direction (heading towards the haulage company), the sign says 7.5T except for loading. However, crossing the bridge in the opposite direction (away from the haulage company), the sign says 7.5T except over 14'3"
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Andy
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bmuskett
Lifetime Member
Joined: May 12, 2006
Posts: 710
Location: Stockport, Cheshire
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| Pocketgps wrote: | At the end of the day this is now a database that has to be purchased.
I think that there must be many users that download the files but do not know about this problem because they don't use the forums.
A notice placed on the download pages would help to inform them of this.
Surely the whole purpose of a paid for database to provide the correct information to all users, not just the majority. |
The database IS providing the correct information to all users, but some users need to interpret it differently depending on what they are driving and what device they are using. In the same way that all vehicles have a speedometer but how you use the speed information differs depending on what you are driving. It's YOUR responsibility what you do with the information and to know the limitations of your vehicle.
Is anyone complaining to TomTom saying their speed camera database doesn't reflect different vehicle speed limits? Is anyone complaining to Garmin saying that the over speed warning doesn't reflect all vehicle speed limits? Stop trying to blame someone else, YOU are driving. And if you are relying on a tool to help you with that you should understand how it works and not follow it blindly. |
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Skippy
Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12
Posts: 2946
Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| bmuskett wrote: | | Is anyone complaining to TomTom saying their speed camera database doesn't reflect different vehicle speed limits? Is anyone complaining to Garmin saying that the over speed warning doesn't reflect all vehicle speed limits? Stop trying to blame someone else, YOU are driving. And if you are relying on a tool to help you with that you should understand how it works and not follow it blindly. |
Sorry dude but that's a real luddite point of view.
Was anyone complaining when we didn't have speed limits for the cameras? Or direction information? Or camera types?
Of course, for every feature the team add, they will have to weigh up the demand for it first and decide if there is a business case.
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Skippy
Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12
Posts: 2946
Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| Tim Buxton wrote: | | When I was in Scotland over Christmas and New Year, I saw plenty of '70' signs on the roadside, albeit mainly on the entrance sliproads for mororways. |
They did that in New Zealand years ago. All speed limit signs are explicit. It is useful for foreign drivers who aren't sure what the speed limit should be.
The other thing is that people aren't always 100% certain what the sign means. A significant number of drivers don't realise that the speed limit on a dual carriageway is 70 MPH for example.
| Tim Buxton wrote: | I suppose that those who use bridge-height (and weight) database(s) will have to have extra guidance for these, too. I mean, they might be laden in one direction but not the other, or they might be driving a different height vehicle one day but not the next. Where will it all end?
Dumbing down in the extreme, IMO. |
I don't think it's dumbing down. Let's say there's a route with a low/weak bridge that you've driven thousands of times. One day you drive a different vehicle and take the route you've always done without realising the danger of the different vehicle.
Of course we are all such advanced drivers who never make mistakes that such a thing would never happen to us, but there are plenty of mere mortals out there that it could happen to. 
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