View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
|
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:32 am Post subject: The Real Facts About Motorway Stealth Cameras |
|
|
We've had more emails about these 'stealth' cameras than just about any other subject we've covered so I thought it was time we set the record straight and cut through all the rubbish being spouted by The Daily Fail and Clarkson!
The cameras in question are called HADECS (Highways Agency Digital Enforcement Camera System). They are gantry mounted digital speed cameras, deployed on motorways where variable speed limits are operated. The first generation cameras could only cover one lane each, examples of these are those installed on the M42 and the M4 - A3 stretch of the M25, and they've been in use for some years, the first Home Office Approval for these was issued in 2008.
HADECS 3 is an updated variant with a single camera able to monitor up-to five active lanes of traffic, including those sections of motorway where a hard shoulder can also be used as a live lane. Even these aren't new, we first covered HADECS3 cameras back in May of 2014.
The biggest outrage being spread by the rags appears to be that they are hidden 'stealth' cameras and that they can issue speeding fines for exceeding the 70mph limit.
HADECS3 is no more discrete or stealthy than many other speed cameras, and being painted grey is not unusual. The original HADECS systems, installed over each live lane of a motorway, were hidden behind the variable speed limit signs so surely they were even better hidden?
The bluster about HADECS3 being used to enforce 70mph limits is also nothing new. These cameras have the type approval to enforce any speed limit that is legally in force and so they can be used to issue tickets for 70mph limits if Police so wished. We do not know of anyone who has been prosecuted for exceeding 70mph, as a result of evidence from a HADECS system, but that's not to say you should assume they aren't or won't ever be used for that purpose.
Whilst we could argue that it can, at times, be difficult to know the exact speed limit on a stretch of road, there is little excuse for not knowing that 70mph is the UK's national speed limit. _________________ Darren Griffin |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Kremmen Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 7123 Location: Reading
|
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
Personally I'm in favour as I've witnessed some horrendous speeding on the M25 western section . Shame they haven't issued any tickets since 2008 though. Speed limits are there for a reason. _________________ DashCam:
Viofo A119 V3 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
|
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Kremmen wrote: | Personally I'm in favour as I've witnessed some horrendous speeding on the M25 western section . |
I'm with you. I simply fail to understand the issue. The limit is 70, we all know that, no-one can claim they didn't.
Quote: | Shame they haven't issued any tickets since 2008 though. Speed limits are there for a reason. |
They've issued plenty of tickets, but for exceeding the reduced variable limits, not the 70mph limit. _________________ Darren Griffin |
|
Back to top |
|
|
alan_sh Lifetime Member
Joined: Aug 25, 2005 Posts: 545 Location: UK
|
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
My issue is the fact/rumour that they are set to issue tickets if you do 71mph. Can anyone confirm/deny this one?
Alan |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
|
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
alan_sh wrote: | My issue is the fact/rumour that they are set to issue tickets if you do 71mph. Can anyone confirm/deny this one? |
I find that very difficult to believe. ACPO guidelines are 79 for a 70mph limit. _________________ Darren Griffin |
|
Back to top |
|
|
M8TJT The Other Tired Old Man
Joined: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 10118 Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
|
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
We know it's the recommendations, but are they using them? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MaFt Pocket GPS Staff
Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 15258 Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
|
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Darren wrote: | I find that very difficult to believe. ACPO guidelines are 79 for a 70mph limit. |
Even though the "10% plus 2" IS only a guideline, I can't see any forces ignoring that. Yes, technically, you could be prosecuted for doing 70.1mph but the first line of defence would be 'well my speedo isn't that accurate' etc. Forces won't want the extra paperwork, especially when they'd probably be asked why they ignored the guidelines...
So, while the 10% plus 2 is only a guideline, I've never seen or heard of ANY force not following it. So, I highly doubt that the Daily Fail (there's a reason for it's name you know ) is right when they say they will prosecute at 71mph...
MaFt |
|
Back to top |
|
|
acgale Occasional Visitor
Joined: May 13, 2006 Posts: 7 Location: Cambridge UK
|
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: | So, while the 10% plus 2 is only a guideline, I've never seen or heard of ANY force not following it. |
I got done for 34mph in a 30 in mid-Wales (mobile van - TomTom packed up 2 days before ). I since found out many forces only allow for 10% |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Kremmen Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 7123 Location: Reading
|
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Darren wrote: | Kremmen wrote: | Personally I'm in favour as I've witnessed some horrendous speeding on the M25 western section . |
I'm with you. I simply fail to understand the issue. The limit is 70, we all know that, no-one can claim they didn't.
Quote: | Shame they haven't issued any tickets since 2008 though. Speed limits are there for a reason. |
They've issued plenty of tickets, but for exceeding the reduced variable limits, not the 70mph limit. |
Unfortunately not on the M25 Western section between junctions 10 and 15 (Wisley to Heathrow). When the limit is at 40, 50 or 60 no one slows down if they don't have to and I've never heard of NIP's.
I think it was due to the font or colour on the speed signs being wrong and was highlighted here a while ago. _________________ DashCam:
Viofo A119 V3 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
|
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
That may have been historically true, but I know of people who have had tickets for exceeding the lowered variable limit on the M4-M3 section in recent weeks. Same goes for the M3 SPECS zone, tickets are being issued. _________________ Darren Griffin |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ChristopherW Lifetime Member
Joined: Jan 24, 2008 Posts: 41
|
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Last November, I was flashed on the M1 out of London by one of these - thankfully nothing ever arrived in the post, definitely one of my nine lives gone!
I can confirm that at 2am, they're completely invisible in the dark . I didn't see a speed camera warning sign (as I believe is supposed to be there), but who knows...
The gantries weren't lit at the time, but I understand that if they are being used by the police for enforcement, they are HO Type Approved to enforce the NSL even if gantries aren't lit. I shall certainly be curtailing my speed in future.
If these cameras are supposedly going to strictly enforce the NSL at 70 with no margin of error, how many people who waft along at 75-80 mph are going to be stung by this? Wouldn't the subsequent increase in NIPs end up overwhelming the police forces issuing them? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
|
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ChristopherW wrote: | I didn't see a speed camera warning sign (as I believe is supposed to be there), but who knows... |
Not required to have signs.
Quote: |
The gantries weren't lit at the time, but I understand that if they are being used by the police for enforcement, they are HO Type Approved to enforce the NSL even if gantries aren't lit. I shall certainly be curtailing my speed in future. |
Did you read the opening article?
Quote: | If these cameras are supposedly going to strictly enforce the NSL at 70 with no margin of error, how many people who waft along at 75-80 mph are going to be stung by this? Wouldn't the subsequent increase in NIPs end up overwhelming the police forces issuing them? |
There would be very little admin, the system is digital. apart from a verification that the VRN is correct that is. But as stated, currently the police don't appear to feel the need o use the for NSL breaches. _________________ Darren Griffin |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Kremmen Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 7123 Location: Reading
|
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Darren wrote: | That may have been historically true, but I know of people who have had tickets for exceeding the lowered variable limit on the M4-M3 section in recent weeks. Same goes for the M3 SPECS zone, tickets are being issued. |
Ah, recent weeks, thanks for that info. I haven't used the M25 since last September due my well earned retirement (my story and I'm sticking to it). _________________ DashCam:
Viofo A119 V3 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
|
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Found this article which described the tech:
Smart Highways - HADECS 3 _________________ Darren Griffin |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TerryReilly Occasional Visitor
Joined: Mar 02, 2006 Posts: 2
|
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:31 pm Post subject: The Real Facts About Motorway Stealth Cameras |
|
|
According to the BBC - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-28329966
Some 1,500 drivers were caught in the first two weeks as new variable speed cameras on the M4 and M5 were activated. One was recorded at 124mph.
Ch Supt Ian Smith said the "vast majority" of the offences occurred when the speed limit was reduced for "good reasons".
He said this could be due to traffic building up or debris in the road.
"If people are deliberately ignoring those limits which have been set because of increased danger... [then] there's really no excuse for that whatsoever," Mr Smith said.
The managed motorway project was signed off in January, but the cameras only became active recently.
Figures obtained by the BBC show between 27 June and 11 July 1,502 vehicles were recorded speeding.
They also reveal 70 drivers were travelling above the normal 70mph limit when the speed signs were off including three over 100mph.
Speed awareness courses have been offered to 1,318 motorists in lieu of a £100 fixed penalty notice and three points.
One hundred and sixty seven drivers have been sent fixed penalty notices and 17 have been summonsed because of the severity of the alleged offence. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
Posted: Today Post subject: Pocket GPS Advertising |
|
|
We see you’re using an ad-blocker. We’re fine with that and won’t stop you visiting the site.
Have you considered making a donation towards website running costs?. Or you could disable your ad-blocker for this site. We think you’ll find our adverts are not overbearing!
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|