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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Well put. If you look at OpenStreetMap's website you can see some areas with very complete data and what's more, the data where complete is much richer and more detailed than anything from Google, TA, Navteq etc
Once people realise its a collaborative project then hopefully it'll take off and as you say, there is no better feeling than seeing your submissions appear on the master OSM map for the benefit of all OSM users. _________________ Darren Griffin |
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NickG Frequent Visitor
Joined: Nov 09, 2003 Posts: 357 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Darren wrote: | Well put. If you look at OpenStreetMap's website you can see some areas with very complete data and what's more, the data where complete is much richer and more detailed than anything from Google, TA, Navteq |
Well it *appears* to be, but I keep finding that in practice, some types of data error simply aren't visible (eg turn restrictions). For that reason, even areas which *look* more comprehensively mapped in OSM, still seem to work better in TA/NQ data at the moment. With this app (and I'm sure others will follow), I'm sure that will rapidly change as people start adding the hidden meta-data that makes OSM data more appropriate for active navigation. Anyway, I seem to keep noticing "Hampshire" in several user's and moderator's signatures (including your own) so hopefully we can get Hants sorted out at the very least |
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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 10:00 am Post subject: |
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Yes. The issue OSM has is that it started long before turn-by-turn was ever considered as a possibility for its mapping and so a great deal of the mapping was added without any of that data.
They're working very hard to re-visit all the data and add that data layer. But it won't take them long. I'm amazed at how rapidly the map data has grown in a year. _________________ Darren Griffin |
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NickG Frequent Visitor
Joined: Nov 09, 2003 Posts: 357 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 10:10 am Post subject: |
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They need to add an easy correction and reporting system like TA's MapInsight. Expecting *all* users to correct problems in their area just isn't feasible. They need simpler tools and an improved online interface for fixing things like one-way, turn restrictions, road names etc. Currently many of those things can only be fixed using software like JOSM, which 98% of people just won't bother with. |
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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 10:14 am Post subject: |
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Maybe but then almost all the data you see now was created by people using JOSM and other editors!
So the 2% who have bothered to contribute have done a great deal of work. I mapped most of my home town and surroundings, doesn't take a lot of effort but not for the average user.
It would be better if Joe Public could submit their traces from Skobbler and then the more keen map editors could grab the traces and add the detailed information layers. _________________ Darren Griffin |
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NickG Frequent Visitor
Joined: Nov 09, 2003 Posts: 357 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 10:31 am Post subject: |
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Darren wrote: | It would be better if Joe Public could submit their traces from Skobbler and then the more keen map editors could grab the traces and add the detailed information layers. |
Agreed. Unfortunately the GPS in the iPhone is pretty bad by modern standards and produces pretty unusable traces (hence TomTom building an external GPS into their mount). It might be OK for working out which road you're on (in areas where roads are well spaced) but it's not good enough for actually defining the location of roads in the first place.
If you compare an iPhone track, with something which has come from a SirfStar III logger like the QStarz Q1000 for instance, there's a dramatic difference in the accuracy of the log when superimposed on a "known good" aerial photography map. Often the iPhone trace will randomly wander off 20 meters into some trees or a lake, while the QStarz trace is dead-on (even appearing to show which side of the road you were driving on). Shame Apple didn't include an external antenna pin-out on the dock connector, which would permit cheap passive mounts for cars/bikes rather than the £100 TomTom mount which only works with TomTom. You could easily turn an iPhone into something like a Satmap Active 10 if it had a decent external antenna accessory, but as it stands, the iPhone can't usually get a lock in the trees (and if it does, it can often be WAY out). |
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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 10:34 am Post subject: |
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Do you have a 3G or 3GS? I'm finding the traces from my 3GS more than acceptable. Using Memory-Map they're bang on the track and more than good enough for OSM use. _________________ Darren Griffin |
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NickG Frequent Visitor
Joined: Nov 09, 2003 Posts: 357 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 10:44 am Post subject: |
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Darren wrote: | Do you have a 3G or 3GS? I'm finding the traces from my 3GS more than acceptable. Using Memory-Map they're bang on the track and more than good enough for OSM use. |
Just a 3G... Perhaps they've improved it in the 3GS, but while geocaching with a friend of mine (who has the 3GS) neither of us had much luck with our iPhones but an old Garmin seem to have no difficulty getting a signal amongst the trees. I'll post some traces to show you what I mean later in the week as this seems to quite often come up. I might try and borrow a 3GS at some point to do a side by side comparison.
The iPhone 4 (or HD or whatever it will be called) appears to have an even smaller antenna from the teardown pics |
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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 11:00 am Post subject: |
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Seems to be a lot of variance in the performance of the 3GS from phone to phone. No doubt that both 3G and 3GS are inferior to other devices but certainly my 3G is much better than my 3G.
The good news is the iPad 3G uses the same chipset as will appear in the 4G/HD or whatever it is to be designated. Reports suggest it perform much better, more akin to what we would expect from a current generation chipset.
The antenna size in the 3G was not the issue, there are phones with similar sized antennas that function a good deal better. Either the chip has poor performance or the design suffers from interference or other issues.
Given it has been widely derided on the GPS front, we can only hope that Apple will wish to improve in this area _________________ Darren Griffin |
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NickG Frequent Visitor
Joined: Nov 09, 2003 Posts: 357 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 11:06 am Post subject: |
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An external antenna pinout on the dock connector I'm sure could make a huge difference. Moving the antenna off the PCB could help reduce interference issues, as well as improve the base signal stength the phone has to work with. There are spare pins on the dock connector, so lets hope that Apple has used one of them for a GPS antenna connector in the iPhone 4 (not that the format of the connector is ideal for RF, but it's better than nothing). If so, we could see 3rd car mounts which improve GPS reception in ALL apps, or piggyback adapters which boost battery life as well as improve GPS performance while out walking/cycling. |
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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 11:47 am Post subject: |
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Not sure if you realise but the TomTom and Magellan cradles already offer the signal improvement to all apps.
Properly designed and implemented it should not need an external antenna. _________________ Darren Griffin |
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NickG Frequent Visitor
Joined: Nov 09, 2003 Posts: 357 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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Darren wrote: | Not sure if you realise but the TomTom and Magellan cradles already offer the signal improvement to all apps. |
Oh sorry - I thought that it fed a serial (NMEA) data into the port and that TomTom was the only app that recognised this data? Does it improve things like MotionX then? Does the app not need to be written to specifially look for the serial GPS? |
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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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Nope, Apple make it a condition that any external GPS device can drive any GPS app.
The app doesn't need to be aware either, when connected, an external GPS cradle assumes the role of the GPS automatically so it's transparent to any GPS enabled app.
Works with every GPS app I've tried so far. _________________ Darren Griffin |
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NickG Frequent Visitor
Joined: Nov 09, 2003 Posts: 357 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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Great - wasn't aware of that. Shame the mounts are so expensive and I think both require external power to work (instead of being powered by the phone), so no of use while out walking. |
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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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Yes sadly both are not cheap and both do require ext power.
Let's hope that the next one resolves this issue once and for all. _________________ Darren Griffin |
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