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mikealder Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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Roy, whats the location and name of the narrow road and do you know the width of the section where they get stuck, the reason for asking it to try and route one of my devices through the area and see if vehicle width can be used to avoid it - Mike |
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RoyC Regular Visitor
Joined: 14/02/2003 12:00:10 Posts: 161 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you Mike. I will contact you by PM if I may.
Roy |
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mikealder Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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No problem with PM or e-mail as both buttons will work - Mike |
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GJH Occasional Visitor
Joined: Mar 21, 2008 Posts: 47
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Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:33 am Post subject: |
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alix776 wrote: | roy we base any reveiw on rel life testing ie i use it on a daily basis in 44tonne truck. im not a fan of bench testing i prefer to use applications and devices in the enviroment its being designed for and yes it is the truck version im using.i can only reveiwas i find im hopfully getting the pronav back to retest it. |
With the greatest respect this highlights the difficulties of reviewing any product which hasn't been fully tested by its manufacturer and/or where the manufacturer hasn't fully documented the limitations of the device.
No real life situation can properly be described as testing. It is merely a field trial based on whatever situations the user happens to encounter. Until manufacturers can guarantee the standard of the data upon which their devices operate it is impossible for any field trials to produce more than general results.
Graham |
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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:44 am Post subject: |
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GJH wrote: | No real life situation can properly be described as testing. It is merely a field trial based on whatever situations the user happens to encounter. Until manufacturers can guarantee the standard of the data upon which their devices operate it is impossible for any field trials to produce more than general results. |
I beg to differ here. What results do you expect?
No specification chart or table of measurements will ever convey the usability of a product such as a SatNav. That is what potential buyers want to know.
Nor does the quality of the data have much bearing on a product given there are only two map data providers.
The factors which most people will base their purchase on are usability, the day to day operation and the routes it produces. The routing engine can be 'bench tested' by comparing a set of standard routes and the routes each device produces.
Our tests are not 'field trials' but real world 'review'. We are not 'testing' devices, we are simply appraising them for usability and we have the benefit of experience of a great many devices.
In the early days we used to measure time to first fix, hot and cold starts etc but the modern GPS chipsets are all so good that such measurements are of little benefit. What differentiates devices are the user interface, the routing engine, the hardware design and the software features.
All of these can be appraised by a reviewer in use and we continue to believe that reviewing devices in real world scenarios are very much better than re-hashing a manufacturers PR which is what most other publications covering satnav do. _________________ Darren Griffin |
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GJH Occasional Visitor
Joined: Mar 21, 2008 Posts: 47
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Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:18 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the clarification Darren.
My comments were based on the discussion in the previous few posts of being sent down roads which are too narrow, rather than factors like the user interface, the routing engine, the hardware design and the software features.
In addition, Alix had referred to real life testing rather than real world review - which, I hope you will agree, are two different things.
Coming from an IT background I would disagree that the quality of the data does not have much bearing on a product, especially as regards the specific aspect I was addressing. As posted last Thursday, if mapping has not been improved to encompass more than legal width restrictions then no matter how good the software (used by the devices) is it will still not identify all narrow roads. I believe that it is a vital point when reviewing/trialing/testing devices which purport to be solutions for large vehicles.
Graham |
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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:28 am Post subject: |
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GJH wrote: | Coming from an IT background I would disagree that the quality of the data does not have much bearing on a product, especially as regards the specific aspect I was addressing. As posted last Thursday, if mapping has not been improved to encompass more than legal width restrictions then no matter how good the software (used by the devices) is it will still not identify all narrow roads. I believe that it is a vital point when reviewing/trialing/testing devices which purport to be solutions for large vehicles. |
Where HGV applications are concerned it is true that the accuracy of road width, weights, heights is vital. No question, but this is again a function of the map data rather than the application and almost impossible to assess or quantify
When Navteq launched their 'Transport' dataset they admitted it covered only 30% of the roads but that they were working hard to close the gap.
So when we review a HGV specific app, do we try to quantify the data coverage or do we cover the actual usability of the app? I would say the latter. We cannot measure coverage in any useful way.
So its back to my original statement. The data itself whilst obviously of paramount importance, is not quantifiable. Whilst we can say Navteq cover Road A and Tele Atlas do not, it may well be that the reverse is true of another road. We have to assume that on balance, one is as good or as bad as the other.
Which leaves the software. Most users don't know or care who provides the underlying data, but they do know about usability and this is the driving factor when purchasing a device. _________________ Darren Griffin |
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GJH Occasional Visitor
Joined: Mar 21, 2008 Posts: 47
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Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks again. I understand where you're coming from - I'm coming from a slightly different angle
From my point of view the vitality of the data coverage in regard to road width is paramount. I feel it is wrong of manufacturers to make a great play of their claims of avoidance of narrow roads without pointing out the deficiencies of the mapping data.
If the manufacturers provided a statement along the lines of "The device uses mapping data from xxxxx company which currently covers zz% of roads in the UK" then it could simply be reproduced by reviewers to complement statements regarding usability of other features.
I imagine that such statements are not included as they might put people off buying if the data deficiencies were not hidden
Graham |
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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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GJH wrote: | If the manufacturers provided a statement along the lines of "The device uses mapping data from xxxxx company which currently covers zz% of roads in the UK" then it could simply be reproduced by reviewers to complement statements regarding usability of other features.
I imagine that such statements are not included as they might put people off buying if the data deficiencies were not hidden |
Not at all, where such statements are made, I would normally quote them. Better to be clear rather than have a buyer believe coverage was comprehensive where it is not.
Hope that helps a bit? _________________ Darren Griffin |
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GJH Occasional Visitor
Joined: Mar 21, 2008 Posts: 47
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Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Darren wrote: | GJH wrote: | If the manufacturers provided a statement along the lines of "The device uses mapping data from xxxxx company which currently covers zz% of roads in the UK" then it could simply be reproduced by reviewers to complement statements regarding usability of other features.
I imagine that such statements are not included as they might put people off buying if the data deficiencies were not hidden |
Not at all, where such statements are made, I would normally quote them. Better to be clear rather than have a buyer believe coverage was comprehensive where it is not.
Hope that helps a bit? |
Brilliant, thanks.
Just to make it clear. When I said "I imagine that such statements are not included as they might put people off buying if the data deficiencies were not hidden" I was referring to non-inclusion by the manufacturers, not by yourself.
Graham |
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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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GJH wrote: | Just to make it clear. When I said "I imagine that such statements are not included as they might put people off buying if the data deficiencies were not hidden" I was referring to non-inclusion by the manufacturers, not by yourself. |
Ah yes well that is an entirely separate issue! _________________ Darren Griffin |
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GJH Occasional Visitor
Joined: Mar 21, 2008 Posts: 47
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Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Darren wrote: | GJH wrote: | Just to make it clear. When I said "I imagine that such statements are not included as they might put people off buying if the data deficiencies were not hidden" I was referring to non-inclusion by the manufacturers, not by yourself. |
Ah yes well that is an entirely separate issue! |
But not something that we should not reasonably expect from upstanding and totally honest companies |
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cheshire100 Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jun 09, 2010 Posts: 1
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:54 pm Post subject: Pronav now has released final free up to cover all of UK |
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ProNav now has released its full and final free up date, which will bring your pronav right up to date on all height width weight restriction accross the UK.
go to www.pronav.co.uk
This will now give full coverage |
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M8TJT The Other Tired Old Man
Joined: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 10118 Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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And a little extract from their website Quote: | 4. The map and transport data updates are exclusively for use with the ProNav system and will only be provided free of charge, up to and including, NAVTEQ’s Quarter 2 2009 data release and thereafter, all other updates will be chargeable. The updates only relate to NAVTEQ mapping and transport data.
5. The map and transport data updates are provided on ‘as is’ basis and Navevo Ltd and its suppliers make no guarantees, representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, arising by law or otherwise or that the updates, or the server from which they are obtained, will be uninterrupted or error-free. |
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