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Border_Collie Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Feb 01, 2006 Posts: 2543 Location: Rainham, Kent. England.
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Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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Quote from the IAM. (Note paragraph 6).
Quote: | Emergency Vehicles
Deciding what to do when you hear an emergency vehicle approaching can be a dilemma. Do you stay where you are and potentially block the progress of an emergency vehicle? Or do you move into a position that may put you or other road users at risk?
Unfortunately, some drivers over-react to emergency service vehicles travelling on “blues and twos” (blue lights and two-tone horns). This is often because they don’t hear or see the emergency vehicle until it’s too close, and then take drastic action to get out of the way.
The IAM (Institute of Advanced Motorists) says that good driving practice will alert you early to emergency vehicles: regular mirror checks (side and rear) for example, and keeping the windows slightly down around town, so you can hear sirens approaching.
Don’t panic and just brake. It’s natural to want to react. But instinctively putting your brakes on immediately in front of an emergency vehicle doesn’t help: it slows the progress of the emergency vehicle and jeopardises other road users.
Think about where you are on the road. You should deal with the problem in the same way that you deal with any other potentially hazardous driving situation. What is the safest option available to you?
Don’t cross red traffic lights or speed to get out of the way. The emergency driver has training and legal exemptions that you don’t have. Bus lanes and box junctions can be problems too, but let them resolve the problem of breaking the rules – not you.
If you are moving it may well be that you can continue at a reasonable pace and the emergency vehicle can follow you out of a pocket of congestion (such as a blocked one way system). In that scenario, attempting to pull over too soon, or slow down, might just cause a needless obstruction and so hamper the progress of the emergency vehicle.
Indicate your intentions clearly Don’t pull in opposite other obstructions, such as centre bollards. If you are thinking about pulling over across an entrance to a school or factory, you may be unwittingly preventing the emergency vehicle reaching its destination. And do think about where you are asking the emergency driver to overtake you – on the brow of a hill or a blind bend can be placing him or her in a very difficult position.
Get out of the way as soon as you can do so in safety. |
_________________ Formerly known as Lost_Property
And NO that's NOT me in the Avatar. |
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Steveee Lifetime Member
Joined: Dec 16, 2003 Posts: 203 Location: Colchester, Essex
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Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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The good news is that Mr Lilley has been let off following the intervention of Tameside Advertiser.
Quote: | Chief Inspector Haydn Roberts, from GMP's Traffic Network Section, said: "On a daily basis we don't progress prosecutions when emergency vehicles are shown to be affecting the driver's behaviour.
"On rare occasions, if one did slip through the net, we will always look again at the evidence to ensure the driver is being treated fairly." |
The bad news that it was not automatic.
This has prompted me to write to Essex Police Traffic Law Enquiries to get them to state what their policy is on such matters. _________________ Steveee
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dsouter Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jul 21, 2006 Posts: 43 Location: Lockerbie
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Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:57 am Post subject: Driver issued Redlight Ticket making way for 999 van |
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Similar thing happened to my son a few years back in Bristol. Fire engine came up behind him so he rightly went through a red light and then pulled in to allow fire engine passed (the other road covered by the lights was closed for major roadworks. Police then followed, stopped and charged him. The Magistrate did commend son for doing what he did and slated Police. _________________ never mind eh!!!
go 1005 |
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Nigbo Regular Visitor
Joined: Feb 18, 2005 Posts: 82 Location: Manchester
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Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:35 am Post subject: |
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I see lycra louts daily on pushbikes with all the racing gear on jumping red lights with impunity - never seen one taken to task yet or snapped by a camera - but then he has no number plate - so traceability is nil (& methinks police interest also). I have a similar beef about the cretins who will insist on riding pushbikes on the pavement - I have never seen police stop and admonish them for this - & when i remonstrated with one young guy in his 20s recently who was attempting to force me off the pavement while he rode his bike on it, i was threatend with violence if I did not move out of his way - so i didn't - and asked him just what he thought he could do against a 6' , 16 stone ex biker / rugby player. He got the message ! |
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Steveee Lifetime Member
Joined: Dec 16, 2003 Posts: 203 Location: Colchester, Essex
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:09 am Post subject: |
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Just had a response from Essex police Quote: | There is unfortunately no simple answer and each case should be viewed on its own merits. In the situation you describe the offence of contravening a red traffic light is committed however there is mitigation that the court can take into account.
If an emergency vehicle showing auxiliary blue lights and it is safe to do so, drivers should move to allow the emergency vehicle progress.
However it does not allow contravention of a red traffic light, as this would be considered unsafe.
I fully understand that the driver in question was acting in good faith and was attempting to do the right thing, however the dangers involved with untrained drivers contravening road signs is unacceptably high.
Even an emergency vehicle contravening a road sign and causing a collision may be held at fault, and the driver may well be prosecuted for driving offences. Advanced police drivers are held accountable for their decisions, and although they may contravene certain road traffic signs, they do so at their own discretion and if it goes wrong they are held at fault. |
So, if I am ever in such a position I will think twice before breaking the law. _________________ Steveee
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BigPerk Frequent Visitor
Joined: Sep 06, 2006 Posts: 1618 Location: East Hertfordshire
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:15 am Post subject: |
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I agree that drivers must use their judgement and not act unsafely, but the reply you got still seems right in principle and law. I guess you have a specific case in mind but it's not clear.
As this thread shows though, discretion and common sense CAN be shown by either the issuing office or the magistrate.
There is also an interesting post on here today giving ACPO guidelines, one of which states that even if an emergency (exempted) vehicle does go through red lights they MUST do so not causing any danger or inconvenience to other traffic and that they CAN also still be held accountable if they act irresponsibly. _________________ David
(Navigon 70 Live, Nuvi 360) |
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Steveee Lifetime Member
Joined: Dec 16, 2003 Posts: 203 Location: Colchester, Essex
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:08 am Post subject: |
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David, the situation I am thinking about is where a ticket is issued as a result of a redlight camera. The camera office issues tickets automatically and unless you dispute it in court, you pay the fine and accept the points.
The court process can be stressful and is not perfect. A friend ended up in court as a result of a redlight camera. As she never received the letter (the court admitted it was sent to the wrong address) she had to appear in court. She asked to see the evidence and it was waved to her from the front of the court, i.e. it was inferred that she was wasting the courts time. She was fined and received 3 points without seeing the evidence.
Strangely, later she received a letter from DVLA and the points were removed and fine returned. The court process is far from perfect, so I would not be willing to trust the court to see sense. _________________ Steveee
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pennyandchris Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jan 04, 2008 Posts: 44
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:42 am Post subject: |
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Just to add a bit of info, when I was trained years ago in driving a (Red Cross not NHS) ambulance on emergency calls, we were told to 'treat red lights as give way lines' - sensible advice, but probably not so sound with the proliferation of cameras about |
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can40swuk Lifetime Member
Joined: Apr 11, 2006 Posts: 1
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Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:07 pm Post subject: Ticketing timescales? |
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Hi,
First time posting here.
I read recently that if you are caught by a serving officer, Gatso or Mobile unit here in the UK, the relavent police authority have 2 weeks maximum to inform you officially in writing of the offence and their intention to proceed with prosecution. This law is in place to allow the driver adequate time to investigate and gather evidence and information surrounding the alledged incident.
Is this timescale also the same for Redlight infringements?
Your answers would be most appreciated.
C. |
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Steveee Lifetime Member
Joined: Dec 16, 2003 Posts: 203 Location: Colchester, Essex
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Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, it is a legal requirement that a Notification of Intended Prosecution should be received by the registered keeper within 14 days of an alleged offence. One exception is where the registered keeper is not the driver. For example, if the vehicle is registered to a car hire company or is a company car. In these circumstances the registered keeper is required to name the driver of the vehicle and there are no legal requirements stating that a notice must be sent to such a nominated driver within a certain time limit.
When you are stopped by the police fopr speeding, you know you will be prosecuted, but I actually believe that the 14 day notification period is more to do with reducing the risk of having to answer multiple prosecutions. If the police took a month you may have triggered 2 or more cameras and could even lose your licence. Many people are not aware they have set a camera off. _________________ Steveee
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GO 920 (retired)
Garmin Oregon 550T
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theripper Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Feb 07, 2006 Posts: 581 Location: Medway Towns, Kent
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Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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AliOnHols wrote: | I'm sure that I have read or heard somewhere, possibly so long ago that it's no longer true, that it is illegal for police and other emergency vehicles to pass traffic lights set at red. They do so at their discretion because it is in the public interest and, consequently, we "forgive" them.
So, if my memory does serve me well and if it is illegal for them, it's sure going to be illegal for us.
Perhaps emergency personnel should be advised to switch off the Blues and Two's when it is obvious that a member of the public is in danger of unwittingly committing a crime, such as mounting a kerb or passing red lights, when all we really want to do is assist by getting out of their way PDQ. |
As a recently retired firefighter from London, we were always told that whilst on an emergency call we should treat red lights as a give way sign and only proceed if it was safe to do so. |
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lundavra Regular Visitor
Joined: Mar 17, 2007 Posts: 76
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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:19 am Post subject: |
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The Daily Telegraph's motoring section had a similar case a few years ago. It turned out that the emergency vehicle was an unmarked police car from another force so the local police had no knowledge of it and its blue lights did not show on the Red Light Camera image (though there was no mention of it being booked?). He eventually managed to idnetify it and get charges dropped.
One suggestion was in such a case to report it to a police station as soon as possible get it logged that you did cross the white line for an emergency vehicle. |
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