Anybody actually using TMC data on their PDAs?

swing

So, there are now two products that support TMC data for the UK (support within Europe has been around for a while) for use on PDAs (Navigon Business Mobile Navigator and Alturion 5 Professional).

Is anyone here actually using either product alongside TMC data? How do you find it? Is it worthwhile having the traffic information? How accurate is it?

Steve
(trying to establish whether it is actually worth the additional cost)

Dave · Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:11 pm Post subject:

Actually there are many more than 2 products, but most of these are dedicated in-car systems.

swing · Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2004 10:09 am Post subject:

Actually, if you ignore the bit in paranthesis it says "there are now two products that support TMC data for the UK for use on PDAs" :D

Although, to be honest, I'm interested in people's opinions of TMC, whether using a PDA or a dedicated SatNav system...

Steve

Erintech · Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:27 pm Post subject:

I have two GPS systems in different cars. One is TomTom on an IpAQ. The other is a dedicated VDO-Dayton unit with RDS.

I have used RDS since it became available in the UK (about 2 years). I have to say I have very mixed feelings. In my opinion the problem with RDS is in the timeliness and quality of information gathering.

I have found it useful as an indication and not 100% reliable. More useful for long term problems (eg tailbacks from roadworks) than for temporary problems (eg 5mile tailback caused by a motorway incident)

So I have avoided an "incident" and gone cross country - only to see at a distance that the eg motorway is entirely clear and I've wasted time. OTOH of course, I've got struck in a jam which appears not especially recent, with no mention on RDS.

Other times it works!

My current opinion is that no system can be expected to be perfect, but my experience of RDS is so far short of perfect that I question whether it is worth bothering...

In the distant past, I used a standalone Trafficmaster system. This is far more credible, because they have a system of roadside speed monitors which cover most main roads and can broadcast information within minutes. Now if this information could be shown on TomTom I would be interested.

Of course (before anyone jumps in!) Trafficmaster requires a subscription and RDS doesn't.

swing · Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:43 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the feedback - so it's basically quite good, but not perfect.

I am investigating PDA solutions which include traffic information, hence my general interest in what people think of the RDS-TMC data in general. As for TomTom, the general rumours are that they will include TMC support at some point this year, simply as two of their main competitors (*) in mainland Europe now support it.

I've used various Trafficmaster units over the years...

Oracle - voice unit, built into car
YQ (both pre and post upgrade to primary route network) - screen unit
Small AA/Vodafone 1800 unit - led screen

I mainly use the last one now (and it's subscription free too, which is nice!) but it only provides up to 3 junctions / 15 miles of information, whereas I did like the YQ and it's ability to show me the detail for the full length of the journey.

TM saved me many hours stuck in traffic, and if stuck, you had a nice indication of the amount of delay you were likely to suffer.

I'll mention as a last point that Trafficmaster are a member of the TMC Forum, maybe one day they will offer a commercial (subscription) RDS-TMC service combining the best of both worlds!

Steve

(*) Some of the independent German reviews state Navigon sells more copies of their software than TomTom, although not all Navigon products support TMC

Talkingbollox · Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 9:58 pm Post subject:

As everyone has a mobile phone nowadays, what's the general opinion on "trafficline" type services which are available from the mobile networks?

Dave · Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 8:59 am Post subject:

You can get a similar setup over GPRS using http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/pocket-live-wire.php it's not TMC but does give you traffic information.

swing · Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:16 am Post subject:

Most of the Trafficline services use the Trafficmaster data, and hence are nice and fast at reflecting the traffic conditions, however, I've not used them much due to normally having access to the same information without a phone call.

As for Pocket Live Wire (and the link doesn't work btw) as it neither integrates the data into the SatNav program, or filters the information based on the current location (which are the same issues with Traffic-i), it's not as useful as it could be for me. But I do agree, it's a nice solution for providing the information to the user, and has potential to be developed further into an integrated service.

dejongj · Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 4:17 pm Post subject:

swing · Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 7:41 pm Post subject:

Good point, I expect that there is a world of difference between RDS-TA (traffic announcements on the radio) and RDS-TMC (direct data feed of traffic issues).

Erintech · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:47 pm Post subject:

Erintech · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:49 pm Post subject:

swing · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:37 pm Post subject:

Yes, that's RDS-TMC.

Steve

dejongj · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:30 pm Post subject:

As Steve has already noted, yep that is RDS-TMC.

And no I don't think you are picky. If it is out-of-date or too late than it is of no use. My main experiences are within Holland regarding TMC, I hope soon I can see whether it is any good in the UK.

Though you experiences are not encouraging...

DavidW · Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 1:06 pm Post subject:

There is a possible business model issue with RDS-TMC. I'm not surprised that the information is found to be imperfect, as unless I'm mistaken, the information is broadcast free of charge. Maybe you need other information to make proper use of what is broadcast free, and that is chargeable - I haven't studied the workings of TMC.

Personally, I am not that tempted to plough a lot of money into a TMC based setup. I'd prefer it if someone released a system that allowed you to access traffic data over GPRS - I wouldn't have thought that the data transfer added up to that much even if used all day every day, and I already have all the necessary hardware. After all, you can access the data in a fairly intelligent way, only bothering to retrieve traffic data that is relevant for the route you're using and routes nearby. I believe some versions of CoPilot do this in some areas.

Obviously if the Trafficmaster data is being used, there will be a charge for using the data - but traffic data has to be accurate and promptly updated to be any use. Free data that is incorrect or misleading is probably worse than useless, as it will lead you (or your navigation system) into wrong decisions.

You can view the ITIS traffic data online on Navtech maps free of charge - click the "LIVE Traffic Information site" link at http://www.itisholdings.com then, when you've zoomed in a bit, click "View traffic information" under the map. I guess this may be the exact same data going out via RDS-TMC on Classic FM.

Earlier today, I made a side by side comparison with Trafficmaster - I have a user name and password for trafficmaster.net (it's just under 9 pounds per quarter for personal use; unfortunately it uses Flash and requires so much memory that I just couldn't make it work on Pocket Internet Explorer even with the latest Flash plug-in).

The ITIS data seemed to have useful detail about 'fixed' problems, such as roadworks and temporary road/lane/exit closures - but seemed to be less comprehensive about the more dynamic hold-ups. For example, the A41 roadworks in the Hendon area are shown on the ITIS data as roadworks and a contraflow. Trafficmaster was showing 5 mph - so there was obviously some significant hold-up there.

There were also some hold-ups on the A5 in Dunstable showing on Trafficmaster - but nothing on the ITIS system. If that road is snarled up, it can have significant consequences for traffic in south and mid Bedfordshire.

My impression is that there was some delay in updating the ITIS data, whereas Trafficmaster seems to update pretty quickly (Trafficmaster are pretty proud of their network and talk lots about it - not least so that their data has commercial value!). Trafficmaster also give an estimate of how long a delay will be, or the recommendation "Avoid", which means significant delay or the road is actually closed.

My comparison is based on one snapshot, however - so it's neither rigorous nor a proper comparative review. Maybe others with similar access to Trafficmaster data might like to try this comparison and see what they think.

David

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