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Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:34 pm Post subject: Panasonic System
I recently purchased a new car (Toyota) and specified a satellite
navigation system. To cut a long story short, the dealer fitted the
incorrect system, and has now found out that the system I specified
(to include electronic traffic avoidance) is not available except as a
factory fitted option. To get himself out of this bind he has
suggested that he fit, at his expense, a third party system which will
include this option.
The system suggested by him is the Panasonic CNDV2300 system, with
CYVMR 5800 screen, and (presumably) the CY-TM100 TMC system.
I know little about satellite navigation systems (other than that I
want one!) and am trying to decide whether this is a worthwhile offer
to take up. I would be grateful for any advice anyone can provide,
namely:
Is anyone familiar with this system, and is it a good alternative to a
proprietary Toyota system?
How are the screens in these systems fitted to the dashboard, and are
they of robust good quality, bearing in mind that they are removable?
Any alternative systems I should be asking my dealer to consider?
I don't know anything about Toyota's in-car fitted satnav, but the Panasonic does include gyroscope sensors which will detect whether the vehicle is in motion and which direction which will help when say the GPS Receiver isn't receiving a signal, for instance when travelling in a tunnel. Most dedicated in-car systems do have gyroscopes, I guess it really depends on how much you have already paid out.
The Panasonic system comes in at around £1000-£1200 with the 5.8" screen, and gives borderless routing across UK and Europe (covering 14 countries) with Points Of Interest and partial postcode support. It also comes with voice guidance, choice of three routes, route avoidance/detour and colour 3D maps from NavTech. Not too sure what the TMC box usually costs, but I'd presume probably around £130 maybe more.
after a lot of soul searching I decided I would accept his offer, and the Panasonic system was fitted yesterday.
At the moment, I am not too happy with it. It could be that it still needs to be calibrated to my car better (which will presumably happen as I drive around over the next few days), however, at the moment, unless I am travelling at a speed above 30 miles per hour, the speed pulse doesn't seem to register, and the system thinks I have stopped!! This can be somewhat frustrating when driving through city traffic, where you can't get above 20 mph. Guidance becomes a bit moot when the GPS still thinks you're 3 miles further back on the road, and of course it's in city traffic that a car sat nav system is most useful. When the speed rises above 30mph, the system starts to react again, and it's rather fun (not) to see the symbol representing my car leaving the road and flying off across country, because I have changed direction in the last 3 miles, until the system checks position again, and suddenly the map jumps to the current position.
This effect makes the colour map system a nice conversation point and decoration to the car, but virtually useless for finding addresses in any sort of town traffic if I stick to the speed limits!
Has anyone come across this issue, and is it repairable, or is this the best I can hope for on this sort of system? The Toyota turn by turn system which was taken out of my car in favour of this was always very accurate in it's positioning, and easy to follow, although it didn't have the full colour map system, or the TMC option.
Please reassure me, because at the moment, I'm wishing I'd stuck with what I had!!
This is not normal, and I would take it back immediately and if need be take some time to take someone out from the garage and show him how bad it is. Speed Pulse sensor AFAIK should work under 30mph otherwise like you say it would be completely useless. It sounds like they either haven't wired the Speed Pulse Sensor up correctly, some newer cars need it wired to the ECU, and there may be an issue there getting the data back, or it maybe that the sensor is faulty.
The whole point in having a gyro is to tell which direction you are facing, and the whole point in having a speed pulse sensor is to know that you are travelling, so it should register below 30mph.
It sounds like you have about as much success with main dealers as I do!
Thanks Dave, I very much appreciate your input and I plan to tackle the dealership about it right after the weekend.
Another question if I may......
I have now had time to get all the boxes of what they have fitted (they had left them in the boot), and I find that they have fitted an Alpine NVE-K300 speed pulse generator, which works by magnetising one of the tyres and counting the pulses as the wheel revolves. This seems a rather 'low tech' solution to me. The car this system is fitted in is the new toyota corolla with 1.6 vvti engine. I find it difficult to believe that this is the best or only way to get speed pulse information from such a modern engine? I'm pretty damn sure that wasn't the method of checking speed pulse on the toyota system which this one has replaced.
Do you have any comments, advice, or know where (on the web) I could find out whether the engine would support a different (better) method of obtaining speed pulse? It would be useful if I could go back to the dealership armed with good information.
Speed pulses connected as wheel sensors are the norm really. Some newer cars have speed sensors built in, so wiring the satnav through the EC (Electronic Computer) works, but when speed pulses aren't installed then you will have to have one rigged up to a wheel. Speed Pulses are usually quite accurate and can tell how many revolutions the wheel is doing (very similar to the tacometer). If it's not functioning under 30mph then I'd say there's clearly a fault with it, or how it's being interpreted. Either way, take it back to the dealer and complain.
Not sure about any other options other than speed pulse.
I trawled the internet for information on this subject and found that:
(paraphrasing) '98% of modern cars have a method of obtaining speed pulse either from the ECU via a CAN bus or via a transducer. As a last resort there is the option of tyre magnetisation'
I also found that any engine which is capable of having a cruise control fitted generates a speed pulse.
I called the dealership armed with this information, and the fact that the current system they fitted didn't work. I suggested that the salesman I was talking to check with their own sat nav technicians (the panasonic system had been fitted by a third party 'expert' for them) as to what method was used on the toyota system they had taken out and which worked very well.
He called me back to say that he had called the fitter and they agreed that there was 'another way' to get speed pulse, but they hadn't used it as it would invalidate my warranty'! I pointed out that they themselves had fitted a system using this method, and if they did it as appointed agents, surely that would not invalidate the warranty. I suggested (again) that he discuss with their own technicians.
He called back again to say that he 'had the solution to all my problems'. He booked the car in again to have the work done to connect the system to speed pulse via the ECU. This is now being done on Thursday.
Watch this space!! Hopefully this will now resolve the issues.
Picked up the car from the garage tonight. They have removed the wheel sensor speed pulse and connected the sat nav to the ECU. Whilst I have only driven about 4 miles so far, everything is now working perfectly.
Looks like I can finally stop calling the dealership twice a week.
Thanks for all your help Dave. it was very useful to me.
No problem I'm glad it looks like you've got it fixed. The direct route really should be through the ECU AFAIK and by wheel secondary, so you should be good to go.
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