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Andy_P Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 19991 Location: West and Southwest London
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Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:22 am Post subject: |
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Zebb wrote: | I asked OFCOM about this and they said;
The relevant standard (ETSI EN 301 357) for this type of apparatus was updated recently to version 1.4.1. In this revision, the requirement to turn the transmitter off when there is no audio signal was better defined (Section 8.1).
I cannot find this document on the internet but I suspect it should apply to commercial broadcasters not to PNDs of the 50nW kind. They suggested it was Tomtom that has decided to disable this function as there is no law to stop them. |
I have now read the "final draft" of the relevant document: ETSI EN 301 357-1 V1.4.1 (2008-09)
Your contact was correct that the relevant paragraph is Section 8.1 and it does seem quite clear and "well defined":
Quote: | 8.1 Basic requirements for Band II LPD
The following conditions shall be met by all Band II LPD:
• Band II LPD shall cease to transmit within 1 minute of the removal of audio modulation. Pilot tones to ensure continuity of transmission are not permitted. |
Also, the definition of a "Band II LPD" can be found in Paragraph 4.1.4:
Quote: | Band II LPD
Short range low power FM transmitters operating in the FM Broadcast band 87,5 MHz to 108 MHz are used for the provision of an RF link between a personal audio device, including mobile phone, and the in-car or home entertainment system. |
So, I'm afraid it definitely DOES refer to 50nW PND's and not just big commercial broadcasters, and unless something changed after this "final draft" then TT seem to be correct.
You can read the entire document yourself here:
Part 1: ETSI EN 301 357-1 V1.4.1 (2008-09)
Part 2: ETSI EN 301 357-2 V1.4.1 (2008-09) |
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uffe73 Frequent Visitor
Joined: Jul 23, 2004 Posts: 521 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Has anyone else had the problem that FM transmission on a 720 stops working (including the Jukebox) after installing the 8.204 application? When reverting back to 8.300 it works fine again, but then you get other problems that have been heavily discussed in various forum threads...
/Ulf |
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mikealder Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't expect all functions to work on the device when you install software intended for a different model, to be honest I am quite surprised it even runs at all on the unit.
With the 8,300 related problems on your x20 you have a couple of options:
1/ Roll back to Navcore 8,010 and v810 mapping
2/ Put up with the issues and wait for a fix running the new v815 maps - Mike |
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uffe73 Frequent Visitor
Joined: Jul 23, 2004 Posts: 521 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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mikealder wrote: | I wouldn't expect all functions to work on the device when you install software intended for a different model, to be honest I am quite surprised it even runs at all on the unit.
With the 8,300 related problems on your x20 you have a couple of options:
1/ Roll back to Navcore 8,010 and v810 mapping
2/ Put up with the issues and wait for a fix running the new v815 maps - Mike |
I'm going for the second option. Now that I have payed for a map subscription, I don't want to go back to the v810 map that is lacking IQ Routes v2. The stuttering isn't so bad on my device so I can put up with it. It's just the slow GUI that annoys me. I really hope that TomTom react on the large number of customer complaints and release an updated SW for the x20/x30 soon. As others have stated before, it should be possible for TT to modify the x40 SW such that it works with the x20/x30 devices (strip the HD functionality, enable GPRS Traffic and possible change to the old icon set if they want to keep the distinction between the older and the newer ranges). |
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garcor Regular Visitor
Joined: Feb 10, 2008 Posts: 114 Location: Nova Scotia & Florida in Winter Go 920 App 8.351 Maps NA 850 & C/W EU 830
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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uffe73 wrote: | Has anyone else had the problem that FM transmission on a 720 stops working (including the Jukebox) after installing the 8.204 application? When reverting back to 8.300 it works fine again, but then you get other problems that have been heavily discussed in various forum threads...
/Ulf |
I tried 8.204 on my 920 and same problem with FM transmission for Jukebox & audio books. Everything other than FM worked great but I decided to go back to 8.010 and wait for the bug fix in 8.030
Last edited by garcor on Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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uffe73 Frequent Visitor
Joined: Jul 23, 2004 Posts: 521 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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garcor wrote: |
I tried 8.204 on my 920 and same problem with FM transmission for Jukebox & audio books. Everything other that FM worked great but I decided to go back to 8.010 and wait for the bug fix in 8.030 |
Ok, then I know that it wasn't only my device that showed this behaviour. |
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LostMike Frequent Visitor
Joined: Jan 17, 2008 Posts: 369 Location: Monmouthshire
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure if anyone else has picked this up.
I was so surprised by TomTom's insistence that it was EU law that caused them to switch off the FM instructions that I contacted my MEP. It took some time but he has confirmed that there is no (repeat no) EU law banning these transmissions. I have drawn this to TomTom's attention and received the following response:
Quote ...Thank you for your feedback , and the quoted email. I took this and spoke with my manager asking what we can or are doing about this. I was told that our legal department had been working on how to make this function work. Apparently the standard quoted to you is one that each country can choose to impose or not. As i am not a legal expert i am not exactly sure how this works. The response i was given is that they need to alter the software so that when the FM transmitter is in use it is a continuous broadcasting device. Once this has been rectified in a sw update in the very near future. I was not able to get a date of the release just that it should be soon. .....Unquote
It seems all we have to do now is wait and we will get our devices back the way we thought they should work. In the meantime I will not hold my breath. _________________ LostMike
Satmap A10. Platform 21
Software version 1.5.9193
Satsync 1.525 |
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uffe73 Frequent Visitor
Joined: Jul 23, 2004 Posts: 521 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the inquiry LostMike. Let's hope that TT puts this feature back via a firmware update soon!
Ulf |
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mikealder Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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LostMike wrote: | Not sure if anyone else has picked this up. | Have a look at the end of the post Andy_P made Here it contains a couple of links to something you might like to ask the MEP to comment on, in particular the parts about a transmitter not sending out silence for more than 60 seconds - don't expect a reply though as I doubt he will understand the question - Mike |
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LostMike Frequent Visitor
Joined: Jan 17, 2008 Posts: 369 Location: Monmouthshire
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Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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mikealder wrote Quote: | you might like to ask the MEP to comment on, in particular the parts about a transmitter not sending out silence for more than 60 seconds - don't expect a reply though as I doubt he will understand the question |
His point was that this is not EU law but a trade standard so I don't think he would have any views about silence! However if TomTom can sort things out to their satisfaction and let me hear the instructions again soon. Then I will be content. _________________ LostMike
Satmap A10. Platform 21
Software version 1.5.9193
Satsync 1.525 |
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Crossbovv Occasional Visitor
Joined: Mar 05, 2009 Posts: 7
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Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:27 am Post subject: |
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jonstatt wrote: | Andy_P wrote: | matthewj wrote: | Andy_P wrote: | apparently it is due to some obscure EU rule about *not* having intermittant FM transmissions. |
How does that fit with FM being in the new 940? Or is that different in some way? |
But it doesn't transmit instructions AFAIK. |
Correct |
In germany the 940 transmit music and instructions to the radio:
"Über den FM-Transmitter kann Musik über den integrierten MP3-Player und Navigationsanweisungen durch die Auto-Stereoanlage wiedergegeben werden"
But it is also blocket..
Sorry for my bad english, i hope you understand what i wrote.. |
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MARViN2003 Regular Visitor
Joined: Nov 27, 2005 Posts: 132 Location: Stroud, Gloucestershire
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Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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If a user is using the MP3 player as well, then the Tomtom is transmitting all the time. The voice prompts should be reactivated if you use the MP3 player this way.
All Tomtom really need to do it transmit SOMETHING every 30 seconds. Even if the something is a very quiet hum or the Tomtom drums etc. If the Tomtom is also sending out the MP3 signal then the 'ambient' sound could be automatically disabled. |
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mikealder Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
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Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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Marvin, similar to what you describe is what I would like the unit to do, if there is an mp3 playing give the user the option to route the nav instructions via FM as well, if no mp3 is playing then disable the FM Tx, This allows TomTom to comply with the regulations and the users would be happy as there would be the option to play a silent mp3 track - it works on the Garmin units - Mike |
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Crossbovv Occasional Visitor
Joined: Mar 05, 2009 Posts: 7
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Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:46 am Post subject: |
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This Is also important to know, from this thread:
mikealder wrote: | You cannot use Navcore 8,010 with the v825.2157 maps that are employed for the x20 and x30 devices, it simply doesn't work - you wouldn't get the IQ-2 Routes feature for a start - Mke |
That is true, but 825.2159; 825.2144; 825.2158; 825.2167; 825.2118 and 825.2158 maps are working great with go720 navcore 8.010.9369.
Table removed following discussion with Admin/ Moderators, the general feeling is this advertises/ assists with map piracy and as such is not something we allow - Mike Alder |
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mikealder Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
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Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:18 am Post subject: |
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Another point that is important to note, where and how are you getting these maps from?
If you use the official route of purchase through TomTom Home with the device connected you will only get specific maps that are the correct ones for your device. If you are using the correct download/ activation then you would never get anything other than v825.2157 with the x20/ x30 products - Mike |
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