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Pocket GPS World :: View topic - Car Derived Van or just a plain Van?
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Car Derived Van or just a plain Van?
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marksfish
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:32 pm    Post subject: Car Derived Van or just a plain Van? Reply with quote

Having downgraded from originally the Astravan to the Fiesta van (both of which are no longer in production), I have had a Transit Courier forced upon me. The V5 isn't back yet, the Ford sales team can't give me the answer and t'internet isn't a lot of use.

Does anyone here know if the Courier is a CDV? I think it may be because the sticker on the a frame with the tyre pressures gives one set for the Courier and one set for the Tourneo.

Obviously, I need to know the answer to this as it will effect my driving, with a van being restricted to lower speeds on minor roads and dual carriageways. Would hate to be zapped by plod. I know, I could slow down to 60mph anyway and gain the overtime, but I would rather be home a bit earlier Very Happy

Thanks
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JaTe
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi @marksfish,
As no-one has yet offered an answer, had you read this amongst your internet searchings? https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/car-derived-vans-and-dual-purpose-vehicles/car-derived-vans-and-dual-purpose-vehicles and particularly section 3 "How to identify a car-derived van"
Hopefully you will be able to work it out from that. Good luck.
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marksfish
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Jate, I had seen that page. The Courier falls into the category going by those points, but there has to be a car alternative, from my understanding. i.e. Astravan, Fiesta van, Bipper van = Berlingo. I am not 100% certain the Tourneo is the car equivalent of the Courier and am still awaiting the V5, which should be the definitive answer. I was hoping someone on here may own/ drive one and know the answer while waiting.

Cheers
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marksfish
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brainwave time, I decided to ring DVLA (didn't think previously they would be very helpful). The good news was that the call was answered quickly by a friendly lady who was able to give me all the information I wanted. The bad news is it is registered as a panel van, so slow down for me Sad
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A simple thought is - Is there a ford car called a Courier and if there isn't (and of course there isn't) then there's very little chance of it being a CDV. Incidentally, the Bipper is NOT a CDV, there is no Citroen Bipper car, the equivalent is the Berlingo van

The V5 for my Renault Kangoo van says Car derived van AND it also has a gross weight under 2,000Kg so it comes into the category allowed to follow car speed limits. There is one Kangoo van model which has a greater GVW, so plod might be tempted to chance it with me - I carry a photocopy of the V5 to prove it.
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Presumably the various speed camera 'mechanisms' knows that yours is a CDV Dennis? Or do the non-CDV Kangoos get away with a bit of speeding?
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Privateer
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
Presumably the various speed camera 'mechanisms' knows that yours is a CDV Dennis? Or do the non-CDV Kangoos get away with a bit of speeding?

I have no idea, but surely it wouldn't be too difficult for mobile cameras to target any van to get its speed and then (either at location or later when back in the office) lookup the registration number with the DVLA database to determine whether the vehicle is a CDV or not and then check whether it's speeding for its classification type?

Similarly, in a SPECS zone all vehicles will be recorded with their average speed, I would think that it'd be relatively easy to also look up each vehicle's DVLA data and determine its speed limit and thus work out whether it's speeding or not.

As I said I have no idea whether any of the above is actually done but it could be possible.

Regards,
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My limited knowledge is just based on what people say, which is that this sort of thing is enforced by boots (or wheels) on the ground - so a van has been stopped by hociffer/s who said you're speeding in that thing. Most often, it's the larger Mercedes Sprinter and Ford Transit type vans which are done for speeding as they are far easier to spot, it's very rare to hear of CDV size vans which are caught out - in order to do so, plod needs to recognise the make and model of the actual small van. I have heard of road sensors which get the weights of vehicles, but how that might work for speed enforcement I don't know.

Robert, are you suggesting that average (SPECS) speed limits are different for different classes of vehicle? e.g. in a 50 average speed camera zone lorries (or anything else) are supposed to drive at a speed other than what is posted on the signs?
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the old Gatsos could 'tell the difference' between a HGV and a car, and I suspect that they would detect small vans as cars due to the smaller radar cross sectional area.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DennisN wrote:
Robert, are you suggesting that average (SPECS) speed limits are different for different classes of vehicle? e.g. in a 50 average speed camera zone lorries (or anything else) are supposed to drive at a speed other than what is posted on the signs?

No, I'm not suggesting anything as I don't know. Thumbs Up

I am just saying that as we all know, in a SPECS zone, a vehicle's image with a timestamp its taken when it enters and exits a zone - therefore it's average speed can be calculated. At this point I'm theorising that it is probably possible to use ANPR software to determine the number plate and therefore look up the vehicles's DVLA data and thus know what it's class is and hence what it's maximum speed limit it.

However, for SPECS that are temporary on motorways where the speed limit is usually 70mph but the temporary speed limit is 50, 55, or 60 then it probably isn't worth the hassle of setting up the system to check the vehicle's class.

To sum up, I think that's possible that SPECS could be designed to determine the vehicle's class, but I think that SPECS would probably not be set up for doing that.

Regards,
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marksfish
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DennisN wrote:
A simple thought is - Is there a ford car called a Courier and if there isn't (and of course there isn't) then there's very little chance of it being a CDV.


But, there is a identical (exterior wise) vehicle called the Tourneo which is a car. Both are based on the Fiesta chassis and I have seen one on the road today. The only difference is the name. That said, it has been confirmed by DVLA what it is, so unless they have mis- labelled it, I shall happily clock up the extra overtime Very Happy
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marksfish
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thought there was an edit button, whoops...

The proper name for the car version is the Ford Tourneo Courier.
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b33jay
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marksfish wrote:
DennisN wrote:
A simple thought is - Is there a ford car called a Courier and if there isn't (and of course there isn't) then there's very little chance of it being a CDV.


But, there is a identical (exterior wise) vehicle called the Tourneo which is a car. Both are based on the Fiesta chassis and I have seen one on the road today. The only difference is the name. That said, it has been confirmed by DVLA what it is, so unless they have mis- labelled it, I shall happily clock up the extra overtime Very Happy


According to the link below the courier is available a passenger (car) version but not in the UK. It may be that DVLA are categorising the Courier incorrectly - it wouldn't be the first time they got a classification wrong!
Why not ask Ford?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Transit_Courier
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b33jay
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where has the edit box gone? Confused
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There bloody well isn't one on this part of the forum. I keep asking why, but constantly get ignored.
WAKE UP ADMIN. GIVE US THE EDIT BUTTON or at least explain why there isn't one.
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