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GATSOs with no lines on the road surface
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jjmurphy
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:16 pm    Post subject: GATSOs with no lines on the road surface Reply with quote

I am seeing more and more GATSOs that have no lines on the road in front of them. Does this mean, a. they are inactive or b. the enforcement folk don't need to confirm speed by physical measurements?
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The latter
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Duddy
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:20 pm    Post subject: Gatso markings Reply with quote

Sorry Sussamb, where did you obtain the information that the Gatso markings aren't required.
As I understand it to prove an offence of exceeding a speed limit still requires 2 sources of information:-
Gatso, Radar + physical photo showing vehicle set time apart over road markings.
Police radar : Radar readout + opinion of authorised operator.

I am aware photogrammetery can be used but there would still need to be known reference points visible in the photo and they would also have to prove the veracity of the photogrammetery program in court on each occasion
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Kremmen
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you sure they are Gatso type cameras and not Specs average speed cameras that are now appearing ?

The latest 2017 Siemens Safezone cameras for example, whilst aimed in one direction are actually trapping speeding in both directions. They don't use road marks afaik.

Similarly mobile cameras obviously can't use non existent marks.
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Despite the legalities or otherwise of road markings, to miss-quote Dirty Harry "you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well do ya, punk?".

I don't when it's a yellow box..
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dales
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think these questions are prompted by the recent Forum reference to this:-

"Meanwhile, last year, David Erasmus, from Llanelli, West Wales, successfully contested a speeding ticket when he found that the white lines painted on the road as a secondary measure of speed were too close together. Mr Erasmus measured the distances between the lines and found that they were three inches short; his case was dismissed".

The two earlier posters may well be wondering why, if white lines were once considered a necessary double-check, this no longer pertains as a safeguard against incorrect readings.

Dales
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mobiles have the police officers statement that you were speeding and the confirmatory reading of his laser jobbie = two sources of information.
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dales
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the original question was about Gatsos with white lines in front of them, or not, (and not about mobiles or yellow boxes).

Dales
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Kremmen
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used mobiles as an example that the technology is out there to measure accurate speed without road markings.

Plus, just to check whether the camera in question is a true old style Gatso.

My guess is that Gatso & Monitron probably do need reference markers.
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dales wrote:
I think these questions are prompted by the recent Forum reference to this:-"Mr Erasmus measured the distances between the lines and found that they were three inches short; his case was dismissed".
Perhaps the rule is similar to a few bits and bobs in the MOT. e.g. If they are fitted, they must be working. Laughing
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:26 am    Post subject: Re: Gatso markings Reply with quote

Duddy wrote:
Sorry Sussamb, where did you obtain the information that the Gatso markings aren't required.


From this:

5.7.1 Second method of speed measurement
A second method of speed measurement involving a different principle (such as two
photographs or video frames taken a known time apart) shall be used to verify the
primary speed measurement. The accuracy of the second method shall be within 10%
of the speed recorded by the primary measurement. The speedmeter shall be set up in
traffic and sufficient readings taken to be able to make a valid statistical comparison of
the two speed measurements.

Lines make it easier to do so which is why they were introduced but it's not the only method.
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Duddy
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Sussamb for that but what publication is 5.7.1 taken from ?
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Home Office publication:

The Speedmeter Handbook (Fourth Edition) A Guide to Type Approval Procedures for Speedmeters Used for Road Traffic Law Enforcement in Great Britain
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Gatso markings Reply with quote

sussamb wrote:
Lines make it easier to do so which is why they were introduced but it's not the only method.
What other methods?
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As posted by Duddy above, one is photogrammetry.
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