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Average Speed Camera Flaw Exposed

 
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RobBrady
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:31 am    Post subject: Average Speed Camera Flaw Exposed Reply with quote

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A van driver has successfully argued against a summons threatening him with a monthís ban and a £400 fine for speeding.

Paul Clamp managed to overturn his speeding ticket when he disputed point-to-point speed camera 'evidence'.

Photographs purported to show that he was driving at 77mph in a 50mph average speed zone.

Mr Clamp requested the photos and saw his van pictured entering the monitored A14 stretch in Corby, Leicestershire. But the second image showed a van with a different, but similar registration exiting the zone.

The two vehicles were recorded as just being one - Mr Clamp's van - which when the two instances were put together, showed him supposedly travelling at 77mph.

Apparantly the difference in the two vans is very obvious to the naked eye, so as soon as the police were alerted, the case was dropped.

Mr Clamp commented: "It was like a game of spot the difference. The other lad is small Ė Iím twice as big. He had a hi-vis vest, I didnít. The number plates are similar but there is one character difference. Even the graphics are different.

He added: "A blind man on a galloping horse could see it was two different vans. This needs looking at. How many people are being wrongly prosecuted?"

It will be interesting to see how many other motorists will query their speeding penalties as a result of this.

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beebeer54
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's why it annoys me when people say "don't exceed the speed limit and you wont get a speeding ticket" It's not that simple!
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chatman
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Friend had the same type of issue. He was issued with a NIP for the Dartford Bridge for speeding, but when he asked for the proof, they sent him a photo of an old shape Silver Ford Focus with his reg plate on where as his car is a new shape 16 plate White Ford Ka Laughing Laughing Laughing
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beebeer54 wrote:
That's why it annoys me when people say "don't exceed the speed limit and you wont get a speeding ticket" It's not that simple!
Why should the facts annoy you. If you don't speed, you know you were not speeding so it should be easier to 'prove your case'. It is difficult to defend a speeding ticket if you were actually speeding.
Apart from that, it wasn't a flaw with the cameras, it was a flaw with the person checking before the NIP was issued.
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IanS100
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
beebeer54 wrote:
That's why it annoys me when people say "don't exceed the speed limit and you wont get a speeding ticket" It's not that simple!
Why should the facts annoy you. If you don't speed, you know you were not speeding so it should be easier to 'prove your case'.


Had the cloned car been of the same make, model, year and colour, as you would expect common sense dictate, a defence might not have been quite so easy!
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Kremmen
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The issue here seems to be that the pseudo ANPR software seems quite happy matching 2 slightly different registrations to issue a fine.

Seems good that you can ask for both photos as a check, something they should be doing.
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marksfish
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read on the back of my NIP last year that photos are not routinely issued and will only be issued if the offence id disputed for use as evidence in court. To me that reads that if you request the pictures, you forfeit the right to pay the fixed penalty and have to appear in court, with all the associated costs.

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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or they drop the case when it emerges that it wasn't you, or they have different cars in and out as above. Which of course will absolutely happen if you know you were not speeding. Sorry beebeer but I rest my case.
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euroedm
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really no excuse for this one and it gives the technology a bad name, when in this case it was the human at fault

It should have been spotted when the NIP was being processed. The cameras can in some cases misread plates, if damaged, dirty of if the format does not comply with UK law., ie if you move the position of the wide spaces and/or use bolts in convenient places.

Approach the police in the right way and in most cases they will on request send you the photos, just say you don't believe it was your vehicle, plenty of cloned plates on the road these days. I have in the past obtained the photo's without going to court.
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StuartG
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:25 am    Post subject: Camera Mis Reading Plates Reply with quote

I had the same issue a while back. NIP accused me of speeding on the M1 at 1am when I was tucked up in bed, so I thought my car was cloned. NIP implies if you dispute it - we will see you in court.

It is about time they gave you a secure website to look at the photographic evidence.

Took 3 weeks for them to admit it was wrong (after I complained the the Chief Constable - over lack of response) and that no human had checked the "photos" because "they were very busy due to the number of cars speeding through the roadworks".

The ACPO guidelines state they should be checked by an operator before issue to avoid this, but I think they just bat them out and only check if you dispute it, which you may not do if it is a local camera to home.
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: Camera Mis Reading Plates Reply with quote

StuartG wrote:
The ACPO guidelines state they should be checked by an operator before issue
Bear in mind that these are just guidelines. The local CC can stick two fingers up at them if he so wishes.
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geejay38
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:57 pm    Post subject: SPECS Reply with quote

There are several SPECS on the A12 which are painted in colors other in yellow.
Some are painted green and placed amongst trees so that they are not easily noticed!!
Does anyone know if there is a regulation which states the correct colour for these cameras and their supports?
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Kremmen
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These days there are so many different 'things' on top of poles for different uses it's difficult sometimes to differentiate.

I've been out to submissions that turned out to ANPR or plain local authority CCTV.

I'm sure all speed cameras should be yellow.

Got a picture ?
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that it's only a recommendation that they are painted yellow, although most seem to comply with this and some of the new Hasdecs started off grey but subsequently painted yellow.
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geejay38
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your comments.
Did not take any pictures.
If I did not have the locations downloaded would not have known the green SPECS were there!!
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