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rednose59
Occasional Visitor
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 3
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 Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:36 pm Post subject: Right turn and box junction cameras in London |
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| Are these included in the database if not are there any plans to include them? |
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MaFt
Pocket GPS Staff
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 15138
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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No, they're not and no, there are no current plans to include them
MaFt |
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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 10118
Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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Does not the big yellow cross hatch lines give enough of a clue   |
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Andy_P
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005
Posts: 19991
Location: West and Southwest London
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:50 pm Post subject: Re: Right turn and box junction cameras in London |
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| rednose59 wrote: | | Right turn and box junction cameras.... |
Are these two separate things?
AFAIK, it's perfectly legal to sit in a box junction if you are turning right.
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sussamb
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Joined: Mar 18, 2011
Posts: 4456
Location: West Sussex
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:34 am Post subject: |
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Correct if you're turning right  |
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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 10118
Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| Not fully correct. It's only if your exit is blocked by traffic in the opposite direction from which you are turning right is stopping you, not if traffic in the road that you want to turn into is blocking your exit. |
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Andy_P
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005
Posts: 19991
Location: West and Southwest London
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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Spot on... a sneaky distinction there...
| Quote: | Rule 174
Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (download ‘Road markings’ (PDF, 731KB)). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
Law TSRGD regs 10(1) & 29(2) |
But anyway... what's a "Right turn and box junction camera"? Is it one type of camera or two?
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sussamb
Pocket GPS Verifier
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Joined: Mar 18, 2011
Posts: 4456
Location: West Sussex
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| M8TJT wrote: | | Not fully correct. It's only if your exit is blocked by traffic in the opposite direction from which you are turning right is stopping you, not if traffic in the road that you want to turn into is blocking your exit. |
Ah yes, you are so right  Forgot that bit  |
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Border_Collie
Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Feb 01, 2006
Posts: 2543
Location: Rainham, Kent. England.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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You can enter the box junction if your exit is clear. So, you intend turning right and notice it is clear. The oncoming traffic is stopping you from turning right but some of them turn left and fill the space/s that were there. Now you are stuck in the box junction.
Illegal?
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sussamb
Pocket GPS Verifier
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Joined: Mar 18, 2011
Posts: 4456
Location: West Sussex
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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I was thinking about that scenario when I was reminded of the full rule
It's an interesting point to which I have no idea what the answer is. I guess like all situations if you 'drive aware' you might anticiapte that issue if the road you're planning on turning into is heavy with traffic and would only take one or two cars to make your turn impossible. No different really then to a turn without a box junction. Still no idea where you stand legally though although since it was clear when you entered the box you'd probably be legal  |
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Duddy
Lifetime Member
Joined: Dec 09, 2006
Posts: 219
Location: Manchester UK
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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If, at the time you entered the junction your exit was clear but subsequently became blocked (e.g. opposing traffic turned left) you have NOT comitted an offence.
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rednose59
Occasional Visitor
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Right turn and box junction cameras in London |
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| Andy_P wrote: | | rednose59 wrote: | | Right turn and box junction cameras.... |
Are these two separate things?
AFAIK, it's perfectly legal to sit in a box junction if you are turning right. |
Yes they are different, A work mate got a PCN for illegal right turn in South London. £65 fine.
The box junction one's I saw on Breakfast tv, but only caught the end of the feature. |
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rednose59
Occasional Visitor
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| M8TJT wrote: | | Does not the big yellow cross hatch lines give enough of a clue |
Aren't big yellow cameras and multiple no speeding signs enough of a hint to
stop speeding, |
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bmuskett
Lifetime Member
Joined: May 12, 2006
Posts: 710
Location: Stockport, Cheshire
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| I suspect this question may be as a result of this report which I saw on the BBC yesterday morning. It's a box junction camera but I think the problem is for cars turning right at a T-junction, where there's another set of lights just after the junction which holds up the traffic. So there's no oncoming traffic to get in their way, I think they just get impatient. |
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pcaouolte
Frequent Visitor
Joined: Dec 27, 2006
Posts: 998
Location: South Lincs, UK.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Duddy wrote: | | If, at the time you entered the junction your exit was clear but subsequently became blocked (e.g. opposing traffic turned left) you have NOT comitted an offence. |
If the box junction markings are on an area of carriageway which is less than 4.5 metres wide at its narrowest point and signs indicating that "oncoming vehicles have priority" and "trafic has priority over vehicle from the opposite direction" are also present then you must not enter the box junction if you will have to stop within the box junction due to the presence of oncoming vehicles or other stationary vehicles beyond the box junction.
So you need a to know the width of the junction and what signs are present in both directions before making your decision. 
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