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Red light cameras
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timuk
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Location: Norwich, UK

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:35 pm    Post subject: Red light cameras Reply with quote

Quote:
Whilst there can be a number of arguments or excuses for speeding ... the same argument does not hold true for red-light cameras. Entering an junction controlled by traffic lights on red is clearly wrong. Black and White no excuse!

The above was stated in this week's email. I have to say I disagree. A friend of mine was stopped at a red light, but moved to get out of the way of an emergency vehicle. He triggered the camera.

Another example was a guy who was given the photographic evidence of his car having gone through a red light. The problem was that the photo didn't show the AA truck that was towing the car at the time!!

Thanks for a great job guys.

Tim
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Andy_P
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've read about people getting done for moving out of the way of an emergency vehicle before.

Apparently you shouldn't do it unless a copper is actually shouting at you to get out of his way.

I'm not sure if I could ever sit there and make ambulances or fire engines wait, but that's what you are supposed to do in our modern, no "common sense defence" world.
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MaFt
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy_P wrote:
Apparently you shouldn't do it unless a copper is actually shouting at you to get out of his way.


And even then you shouldn't move. The official line is that blue-light drivers are trained to drive on wrong side of roads etc so you should never break the law (jumping the redlight) to let them past.

MaFt
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Andy_P
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it would be a brave man who stood his ground though!

I've watched a few plod shouting at cars to get out of the wayand they don't mince their words!
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whenever I pull out of the way for a blue light, I take care to drive into a position which is obviously not going through the lights - at an angle across traffic, maybe even up onto the kerb. A photograph would demonstrate that I'm climbing the wall, not crossing the junction. Perhaps not possible every time, but worth thinking about.
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MaFt
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Highway code rule 219:

https://www.gov.uk/road-users-requiring-extra-care-204-to-225/other-vehicles-219-to-225

Quote:
219

Emergency and Incident Support vehicles. You should look and listen for ambulances, fire engines, police, doctors or other emergency vehicles using flashing blue, red or green lights and sirens or flashing headlights, or Highways Agency Traffic Officer and Incident Support vehicles using flashing amber lights. When one approaches do not panic. Consider the route of such a vehicle and take appropriate action to let it pass, while complying with all traffic signs. If necessary, pull to the side of the road and stop, but try to avoid stopping before the brow of a hill, a bend or narrow section of road. Do not endanger yourself, other road users or pedestrians and avoid mounting the kerb. Do not brake harshly on approach to a junction or roundabout, as a following vehicle may not have the same view as you.
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AliOnHols
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Following a post here a few years ago where a driver had to go to extraordinary lengths to get a traffic conviction removed (I'm not sure if he even succeeded) for passing a red light with flashing blues and two's behind him, I vowed that I would never go through a red light no matter who was behind me and however much they were encouraging me to break the law.

Evidently, emergency vehicles do not have the right to go through red lights themselves and if this is true, they certainly don't have the right to make you do it on their behalf.

Not sure that I could be so hard-nosed in a real life situation though.
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theripper
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AliOnHols wrote:

Evidently, emergency vehicles do not have the right to go through red lights themselves and if this is true, they certainly don't have the right to make you do it on their behalf.


As an ex FF in London, we(and I assume others) are taught to treat red lights as Give Way signs, and to never try to force someone through the lights.
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AliOnHols
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many thanks for that theripper, it's reasuring news. But are you saying that emergency services actually have the law on their side going through red lights or they need to be cautious because they are bending the law for a good cause?
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Andy_P
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd always believed that Ambulance and fire engine drivers DIDN'T have the law on their side. There is a tacit agreement to ignore the infraction but they have been prosecuted in the past if there has been an accident caused by them going through a red light.

Police might be different (cos they make up the laws as they go along... Wink )
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theripper
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ali

Emergency drivers can only use the red light as a give way sign if the traffic from the other direction can see them and have stopped(you have to stop, wait until the other traffic has stopped and then go through at a walking pace. I believe that if you got flashed by a RLC then you had to prove you were on an emergency before they would let you off). If I had an accident and I had gone through a red light then thats all down to me, and towards the end of my time in the Fire brigade the employers would have left you to the wolves.
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GeoffCee
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would sensibly make way for an emergency vehicle, except if a red light camera was involved in which case my 'sensibility' would be replaced by my stubbornness.
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timuk
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeoffCee wrote:
I would sensibly make way for an emergency vehicle, except if a red light camera was involved in which case my 'sensibility' would be replaced by my stubbornness.


I wonder if you would appreciate another's equivalent stubbornness if you were a casualty in an ambulance trying to get you to hospital Confused
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Border_Collie
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emergency Vehicles

Deciding what to do when you hear an emergency vehicle approaching can be a dilemma. Do you stay where you are and potentially block the progress of an emergency vehicle? Or do you move into a position that may put you or other road users at risk?

Unfortunately, some drivers over-react to emergency service vehicles travelling on ďblues and twosĒ (blue lights and two-tone horns). This is often because they donít hear or see the emergency vehicle until itís too close, and then take drastic action to get out of the way.

The IAM (Institute of Advanced Motorists) says that good driving practice will alert you early to emergency vehicles: regular mirror checks (side and rear) for example, and keeping the windows slightly down around town, so you can hear sirens approaching.

Donít panic and just brake. Itís natural to want to react. But instinctively putting your brakes on immediately in front of an emergency vehicle doesnít help: it slows the progress of the emergency vehicle and jeopardises other road users.

Think about where you are on the road. You should deal with the problem in the same way that you deal with any other potentially hazardous driving situation. What is the safest option available to you?

Donít cross red traffic lights or speed to get out of the way. The emergency driver has training and legal exemptions that you donít have. Bus lanes and box junctions can be problems too, but let them resolve the problem of breaking the rules Ė not you.

If you are moving it may well be that you can continue at a reasonable pace and the emergency vehicle can follow you out of a pocket of congestion (such as a blocked one way system). In that scenario, attempting to pull over too soon, or slow down, might just cause a needless obstruction and so hamper the progress of the emergency vehicle.

Indicate your intentions clearly Donít pull in opposite other obstructions, such as centre bollards. If you are thinking about pulling over across an entrance to a school or factory, you may be unwittingly preventing the emergency vehicle reaching its destination. And do think about where you are asking the emergency driver to overtake you Ė on the brow of a hill or a blind bend can be placing him or her in a very difficult position.

Get out of the way as soon as you can do so in safety.
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Guivre46
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good job with the advice. I think I'll read that a few more times. Idea
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