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Do We Have a Compatable Alpine database?
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r4robert
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK.
I have driven past camera No. 2913 30mph in Balham High Road and with the scdb database it bleeps in both directions, despite being on the NE pavement (and not the middle of the road).

I conclude that the scdb database is not directional, right?

Therefore, what the numbers and letters mean on each line, I haven't a clue!

Thanks Smile
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MaFt
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some sort of check-sum that is linked to the coordinates without which a user cannot install an alternative database.

SCDB have obviously worked out how Alpine do it...

MaFt
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Kremmen
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tend to agree considering, of the ones posted, there are no duplicates.

I've loaded a few into Excel to try and get some form of calculation - and so far failed.

I noted that there was a thread at GPSPassion about the same thing and no result found there either.
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Privateer
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
So that Alpine get all the revenue from cam database sales. Simples Rolling Eyes

Does Alpine actually sell a camera database?

MaFt wrote:
SCDB have obviously worked out how Alpine do it...

Either worked it out or asked Alpine.

Has anybody here actually contacted Alpine and asked them?
If you don't ask, you don't get!

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Kremmen
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The GPSPassion thread includes a passage indicating that someone has asked both Alpine and SCDB and as expected been given a blank.

Hardly surprising really.

You'll need to translate it if you can't read French:

http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=139051
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MaFt
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Privateer wrote:
Has anybody here actually contacted Alpine and asked them?
If you don't ask, you don't get!

Regards,


Yep. Still waiting for any sort of reply.

MaFt
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r4robert
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Privateer wrote:
Does Alpine actually sell a camera database?

Has anybody here actually contacted Alpine and asked them?
If you don't ask, you don't get!

Regards,

Yes Alpine DO sell their own database, but it excludes France that is very important to me. (And hence why I have not purchased it, but I'm still hoping PGPSW will come up with a solution Very Happy ).

As for asking them, I'm about to fire off an email to their Support Dept with a number of questions regarding my 928, so I'll ask what the numbers and letters mean. They can only ignore me!

Thanks Smile
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Privateer
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

r4robert wrote:
Yes Alpine DO sell their own database, but it excludes France that is very important to me. (And hence why I have not purchased it, ...

OK, thanks for the heads up, I don't know the Alpine brand that well. Do you have a URL for where they sell a database? I had a quick search but couldn't find it - I only saw links for SCDB and PocketGPSWorld URLs.

r4robert wrote:
... but I'm still hoping PGPSW will come up with a solution Very Happy ).

The obvious solution is to ask them first. If nothing comes from that then we have a lot of useful people here (team and forum), so with some good analysis and testing I'm sure that you'll get your solution. I guess that if we had more people with Alpine units similar to your one then more testing could be done in the same time.

r4robert wrote:
As for asking them, I'm about to fire off an email to their Support Dept with a number of questions regarding my 928, so I'll ask what the numbers and letters mean. They can only ignore me!

Yes, the more that ask the bester chance we have of the breakthrough. So please go ahead and ask them how the .CSV file works.

MaFt wrote:
Yep. Still waiting for any sort of reply.

If that was some time ago then perhaps you could try again? Would PocketGPSWorld like to be a partner of Alpine? If so, ask Alpine if they would like to be a partner of PocketGPSWorld.

Kremmen wrote:
The GPSPassion thread includes a passage indicating that someone has asked both Alpine and SCDB and as expected been given a blank.

Hardly surprising really.

You'll need to translate it if you can't read French:

http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=139051

No, not really surprising but always worth asking. Thanks for the link. Thumbs Up
For English translation, see translation.

Regards,
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r4robert
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I passed a couple of cameras in Wandsworth yesterday that were planted in the pavement on the other side of the road. The dash lines where on that side only, too.

I am now confident that the scbd database is not directional.

This leaves the obvious question of what are the letters/numbers for.

Well, whilst I wait for the unlikely revealing answer from Alpine, I have a theory:

They are there to effectively "encrypt" the database, and make it very difficult for people to copy it.

Consider:
1. No one to date has made heads nor tails of the letters.
2. Other databases don't use them
3. Alpine/scbd are not fools. Their database costs them money to maintain, so 'protecting' it is a good business solution.

I know the above is merely cynical guessing, but it's a conspiracy theory all the same Smile

I'll let you know the second I hear from Alpine....

Thanks Smile
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

r4robert wrote:
3. Alpine/scbd are not fools. Their database costs them money to maintain, so 'protecting' it is a good business solution.
Is there a cam database available through Alpine or do they suggest using the scdb database?
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r4robert
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
r4robert wrote:
3. Alpine/scbd are not fools. Their database costs them money to maintain, so 'protecting' it is a good business solution.
Is there a cam database available through Alpine or do they suggest using the scdb database?
There is an Alpine database, but its only accessible through Alpines portal 'Navitools'.
Navitools is a Windows application that takes you in to an Alpine shop that sells everything from map updates to POIs.
Thanks Smile
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r4robert
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
... or do they suggest using the scdb database?

Alpine actively promote scdb.

I only used them because there was a colour scdb 'flyer' advertising their camera DB in with the Alpine user manual and other documentation that came in the box.

So clearly scdb are 'in bed' with Alpine!

Thanks Smile
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Kremmen
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I can safely go back to my original checksum theory and that will be some tough nut to crack as any manner of encryption is possible.

The one thing I did notice was that the hex to decimal figures did seem to increase in line with the direction angle but the maths were always different.

Is Bletchley Park still up and running ?
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the angle I was coming from. Petty they didn't get into bed with PGPSW though, as they could have had directional data for pretty much every cam in the UK. Still it does explain how SCDB have got hold of the encoding algorithm that is used. It just surprises me that they haven't encoded the lat/lon as well
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Kremmen
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If my efforts are anything to go by they didn't need to :D
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