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MONITRON worked out I was van and did me for 59 in 60 limit
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jimbo1
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Location: Melbourne, Derby

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:00 pm    Post subject: MONITRON worked out I was van and did me for 59 in 60 limit Reply with quote

I thought my new van was just classed as a car derivative and was OK at National speed limits.
Just got a ticket from a MONITRON which clocked me at 59 and it worked out that I was a goods vehicle and limited to 50 on single track roads, 60 on dual carriageways and only 70 on motorways.
I have checked the vehicle class/weights etc and found out I was wrong it is a goods vehicle!
Are all speed cameras as intelligent as the MONITRON and can work out vehicle type from the registration number?
I am now looking forward to a flood of tickets as I passed this and other MONITRON cameras religiously at less than 60, 10 MPH too fast.
Oh dear, one learns something every day.
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Darren
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. There has been much debate on these but nothing concrete as to how they achieve this 'skill'.

If the decision as to what is and is not a Goods Vehicle is based on DVLA data then each camera would need both ANPR and a live link to the DVLA or a regularly updated database in each camera.

Sorry to hear you were nabbed, it does seem a rather odd law when the vehicle is a car derived van but it is more food for thought as to how these cameras function.
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They were using Monitrons on the M55 some 3 years ago for speed trap and ANPR, was there a sat dish or microwave link attached near the camera? - see This Thread for more details - Mike
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jimbo1
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikealder wrote:
was there a sat dish or microwave link attached near the camera? - see This Thread for more details - Mike


Mike
Not that I can recall! Will be going past again (this time at 50MPH) on Thursday so will look.
Mind you, it must be the most remote Monitron in England, it was on the A69 Carlisle - Newcastle road, eastbound, 14 miles outside Carlisle at a location known as Low Row, all I can recall was that there was a filling station with a shop nearby.
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably Monitron 30013@60 - Mike
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jimbo1
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
Interesting. There has been much debate on these but nothing concrete as to how they achieve this 'skill'.

If the decision as to what is and is not a Goods Vehicle is based on DVLA data then each camera would need both ANPR and a live link to the DVLA or a regularly updated database in each camera.

Sorry to hear you were nabbed, it does seem a rather odd law when the vehicle is a car derived van but it is more food for thought as to how these cameras function.

Darren.
Maybe it is nothing more complicated than the camera goes off at 50+ and records the speed and reg. no. and it is the human or computer software that scans the photos checks with DVLA as to whether it is a goods vehicle or not. I do not think that the Monitron flashes so to go off at 50+ would not alarm car drivers as they would not realise.

By the way, the link http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/speedmanagement/vanspeedlimits explains speed limits for vans and it was the fact that it was a large "car" derivative that was in excess of the limit. I was not aware of the weight limit, just assume that it was only Transits, Sprinters, Ducatos, Boxers etc were classed as goods. The DVLA website says that "Very few vans will meet the criteria to benefit from the same speed limits as a car. Those that do are likely to be similar to a Ford Fiesta van ,Vauxhall Corsa or Renault Clio van in having maximum payloads of around 500kgs so that when combined with the weight of the vehicle unladen (normally around 1.4 tonnes) the maximum laden weight of the whole vehicle will not exceed 2 tonnes."

So, ignorance is no defence as they say - must be more careful in future.

Makes you wonder if others realise. Is it worth a trawl for other peoples' comments in one of your weekly newsletters?

Regards
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Darren
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimbo1 wrote:
Maybe it is nothing more complicated than the camera goes off at 50+ and records the speed and reg. no. and it is the human or computer software that scans the photos checks with DVLA as to whether it is a goods vehicle or not. I do not think that the Monitron flashes so to go off at 50+ would not alarm car drivers as they would not realise.

Possibly but that would mean an awful lot of vehicles being photographed and a great deal of work for anyone to manually assess each image?
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jimbo1
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikealder wrote:
Probably Monitron 30013@60 - Mike


Mike
Actually is 30012@60 which is just SE of 30013, the one you noted is travelling west.
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ChristopherW
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikealder wrote:
They were using Monitrons on the M55 some 3 years ago for speed trap and ANPR, was there a sat dish or microwave link attached near the camera? - see This Thread for more details - Mike



Ah, just like the ones on the V6 in Milton Keynes...
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have seen camera systems coupled to a PC running software called NI IMAQ which is an image processing package, it can check anything from spark plug gaps and accurately measure them to ANPR duties. If this software can do the above its not too difficult to imagine scripting some code to do ANPR and measure the height/ width of a vehicle and only keep the pictures of vehicles that exceed a threshold relative to vehicle speed and size.
As for the speed this system can work at, on a good PC it will easily manage ten checks per second from a single camera so recognising cars/ vans etc even on a busy motorway would be very easy and not require manual post processing to filter the good from the bad - Mike
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ChristopherW
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikealder wrote:
I have seen camera systems coupled to a PC running software called NI IMAQ


Gosh, didn't realise the rozzers were using that kind of setup, that's the kind of software being used for eye tracking and facial recognition (NI also make LABView which works in conjunction with IMAQ as an image capture driver for USB cameras). If the French are trialing those lamppost cams with integrated vehicle type detection, I can't imagine it's long before all our beloved Gatsos get an upgrade Sad
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not 100% sure that the NI product range or software is actually deployed in a Speed Camera system but if you have used Labview with the iMAQ plug in combined with a camera then I am sure you will agree to program a system to achieve this sort of capability would be very easy.

Run it on cRIO fitted with a GPRS modem and and you have a headless system that can send pictures back with the speed, date, time and location etc embeded in the picture by internet or e-mail to a central location, all it would need is some relatively low power to run it - Mike
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ChristopherW
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikealder wrote:
I am not 100% sure that the NI product range or software is actually deployed in a Speed Camera system but if you have used Labview with the iMAQ plug in combined with a camera then I am sure you will agree to program a system to achieve this sort of capability would be very easy.

Run it on cRIO fitted with a GPRS modem and and you have a headless system that can send pictures back with the speed, date, time and location etc embeded in the picture by internet or e-mail to a central location, all it would need is some relatively low power to run it - Mike


I concur - having seen what scientists can do with camera setups to identify people by their gait, to simply identify a big box on wheels versus a small box on wheels must be so simple to do now. Might we end up with nationwide SPECS in all streetlighting (with a load of mesh networks) instead of the in-vehicle, GPS based tracking systems mooted a while back? That would totally suck.
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Andy_P
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as surveillance techniques go, I think it's pretty obvious by now that if the powers-that-be in this country CAN do something , then they WILL do it.
Other European countries wouldn't dare.
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BigPerk
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure about that surveillance point - this topic seems to be about using technology for detecting the difference between a small and a large vehicle which have different legal speed limits applied - I wouldn't call that surveillance really.
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