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France Speed Camera Database

 
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johnb45
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Joined: Sep 30, 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:45 am    Post subject: France Speed Camera Database Reply with quote

Would anyone know when the re-vamped legal French database is likely to be available. I have been reading "in the near future" since January. Even TomTom have managed to publish a legal database free to all owners.
Seems clear though, that simply renaming the existing database is not going to make it legal hence the delay no doubt!
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Andy_P
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a poll done of the userbase on the forum, to work out how best to proceed (it's in the Dedicated Subscriber Forum) and the consensus was to give the users the option of whether or not to include the French (and Swiss) cameras in your individual downloads.

That has already been implemented, so when you go to the download page (assuming you don't just opt for the "same again" every time) when you select the Europe version there are two tickboxes to define if you want the French or Swiss cameras included or not.

TomTom have never provided the ability to define "zones" to third-party POI providers, so there's no way to provide that legal work-round as they have done for their own system.
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johnb45
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:06 pm    Post subject: French Cameras Reply with quote

Yes - All that is straightforward and as understood. However - "The French data is available as an option in the European database. In the near future we will be renaming the files to comply with the law." to me seemed to be saying (since January) that by changing the file names you would be making them legal and this would be done "in the near future".
I think you are saying that French warnings will be available here but not as a legal download - Am I correct?
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MaFt
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the 'near future' comment was before we knew what was actually happening. as it stands specific POI sites are illegal. that's what we offer.

tomtom et al have been able to 'fudge' their databases into 'warning zones' rather than a specific point - however, they only work on their own hardware and they do not allow access for 3rd party data to use the 'zone' feature.

as such there's not a lot we can do for the normal download other than say either you use it at your own risk, or you do without it.

the current feeling is that the french police cannot look at your satnav without a warrant anyway so it may be a non-issue. however, it's up to you.

MaFt
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Tatsfield
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Joined: Jan 17, 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I keep the French map on the SD card additional data storage and can drop it out of the TomTom unit leaving the system to revert to the internal data storage area where no speed camera data is held. Hopefully, even with a warrant, the French police would have difficulty proving what I might have had in the device rather than what is in there by the time they have it in their hands.

I really feel that it is an artificial law which has no basis in legal logic. To hold data on something that is not secret and to be able to visually see the data could be achieved with an annotated map and a navigator in the passenger seat. The position of speed cameras in France is not a secret. Having the information and consulting it is not illegal. Apparently merely the manner in which you do so which is just a little bizarre. In these circumstances I am prepared to make it much more difficult for the French authorities to prove their somewhat difficult legal proof. I'd like to know how they are going to police this law. The automatic cameras were put up to save police having to sit by the roadside stopping cars exceeding the speed limit. Now they will have to sit by the roadside to stop cars which do not exceed the speed limit in the area of speed cameras. Seems a bit of a waste of time!
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JaguarV12e
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaFt wrote:

tomtom et al have been able to 'fudge' their databases into 'warning zones' rather than a specific point -


Having driven in France with the old and new Tomtom databases, I would say that they have not fudged their old camera database, rather they have fudged a new database with data sourced from official sources.

The old TT data was directional, but the new "danger zones" are not (even when the danger (or fixed camera) is clearly only on one side of an autoroute.

There are considerably fewer "danger zones" than there were previously TT cameras.

On some autoroutes, there is a "danger zone" spanning each motorway rest area (and no apparent cameras).

About half the fixed speed cameras on autoroutes, and about 25% of other fixed speed cameras are in TT "danger zones" (the others must be pure revenue generaters!).

Of the 3 mobile cameras I passed on autoroutes last week, one was in a "danger zone".

All in all, the correlation between "danger zones" and cameras is considerably worse than with the old TT database. I am undecided if I would be better off just disabling the TT database and using my eyes.

It would seem to me that PGPS could get the same official data and turn it into a legal POI database by converting them into a string of POIs (at say 500m spacing) not necessarily centered on known camera locations.

Would it then be legal to add additional zones where danger is perceived by PGPS members?
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Judging from the inaccuracy of TT cameras in the UK, I'd say that using their new danger zones data in France is as useful as a chocolate teapot. It seems to me the reason they have fewer zones than they previously had cameras is down to them deleting their existing database and inserting what they could cull from a trawl of French official data sources, with the culling done by someone less than capable and given not a lot of time to do it! I would no more rely on TT camera data in UK than close my eyes and hope - it's not just guesswork, I've been running TomTom's UK cameras on my GO 550 Live every day for weeks now and compared with PGPSW CamerAlert (and cameras on the ground) the TT data is farcical. I cannot imagine that somehow their camera data is any better in other countries.
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Tatsfield
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

May I politely ask whether the work around is ever going to happen. I really don't want to be the first UK driver convicted in France for a breach of semantics! How near is the near future and if there is a problem which is stopping the implementation of the "danger zone" strategy, could we not be made aware of what was happening. Every time I drive in France I have to make a decision whether to use CamerAlert or not. The truth is that at present the existing cameras are well signed and there is no secrecy as to their locations. The threat is from mobile cameras and they were always wild cards. I'm not a flat out speed limit breaker as I find the 130 kph autoroute limit quite adequate but I do like to know if I'm drifting over the limit in the area of a camera as I don't want problems due to merely being inattentive on very long road trips.

Can someone from the Administration not update we CamerAlert subscribers as to what is the current situation, what is happening and what are the Administration's intentions in the field of French speed camera warnings?

Just a reply would be encouraging! Smile
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatsfield wrote:
Can someone from the Administration not update we CamerAlert subscribers as to what is the current situation, what is happening and what are the Administration's intentions in the field of French speed camera warnings?Just a reply would be encouraging! Smile
You had one a few posts ago. Did you not read this Rolling Eyes
MaFt wrote:
the 'near future' comment was before we knew what was actually happening. as it stands specific POI sites are illegal. that's what we offer.

tomtom et al have been able to 'fudge' their databases into 'warning zones' rather than a specific point - however, they only work on their own hardware and they do not allow access for 3rd party data to use the 'zone' feature.

as such there's not a lot we can do for the normal download other than say either you use it at your own risk, or you do without it.

the current feeling is that the french police cannot look at your satnav without a warrant anyway so it may be a non-issue. however, it's up to you.

MaFt
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Tatsfield
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw that but I also saw that you still have the statement on the site that you are going to do something in the near future and that made it difficult to be sure whether your posting was a once and for all abandonment of the problem of dealing with the French situation. If you cannot deal with it, perhaps you might actually say so in the Download website. You have been ambiguous either through embarrassment at not being able to provide a solution or oversight in not updating the website. It would now seem that it's because you can't find a way to help. That's OK, just be consistent. You may well understand the situation but we are not party to your deliberations and have to accept what appears on the website. In this PGPSW seem to have a lot in common with the French Police![/i]
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MaFt
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I thought I had edited the download page so it didn't say 'near future'.

MaFt
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