Offline GPS Navigation in Brazil

[SRMoll]

I am going to be going to Brazil next month for a few weeks, and will be driving.

Luckily I shall not be going to areas I am not already a little familiar with, but I do struggle sometimes, especially when it has been a year or so since the last visit.

I have at my disposal:

• An iPhone 4, no GPS software installed. Only the default Maps app and Google Earth.
  
• A Garmin Nuvi 255 with 2008 ROI maps.
  
• A Garmin Nuvi 205W with 2009 ROI maps.
  

I have been trying to find a solution that doesn't cost too much, and likely to provide the best functionality for the investment. At the moment, I am thinking this is most likely to be a app for the iPhone that can work offline, as 3G coverage in Brazil is patchy at best, and for cost reasons I wouldn't want to use a live connected app anyway.

I have looked at things like Sygic, Skobbler, Tom Tom, Garmin, but I can't convince myself that any of these apps provide decent coverage. One area I shall be in, is in Rio de Janeiro and Niteroi, which probably won't be too bad. The other area is in the north east (Maceio, Alagoas) which I think might be poorly covered. The coverage in Google Streetmap is great, but I don't think this has translated into good offline maps. The OpenStreetMap and Mapquest stuff behind Skobbler, looks like most of the detail is in the database, but there doesn't seem to be any way of exporting them into iPhone apps. The only way seems to be through in-app purchase, but the available areas do not include all the OSM coverage from what I can see. So for Skobbler as an example, there is no in-app purchase for coverage anywhere in the South American continent, let alone Brazil.

Has anyone had any experience of using a GPS in Brazil, and does anyone have any idea of what options I should consider most, given the resources I have available as, listed above.

Cheers!

[AliOnHols]

Sorry, probably out of my depth here as a TT user and not knowing how Garmins function but it appears that there is a Garmin City Navigator® Brazil NT map download available from the NorthAmerican website for $50. (approx £35-£40).
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=11163
Will this not suffice or can't you get access to buy?
_________________
Garmin Nuvi 2599
Android with CamerAlert, OsmAnd+, Waze & TT Europe.
TomTom GO 730, GO 930, GO 940 & Rider2.
SatMap Active 10 & 20.

[SRMoll]

Yes, thanks, I had seen that. The problem is that the coverage detail available from Garmin doesn't inspire much confidence that this would be any use outside of Rio de Janeiro. Their website suggests that the coverage map can be clicked to open an interactive map, so have a closer look, but I couldn't get it to work.

I might fire an email off to them to ask how much detail there is in Alagoas though.

The other thing is that the downloads and uSD-cards are fixed at the time of purchase. This means that in a country like Brazil which is rapidly trying to catch up the rest of the world in terms of things like this, the amount of changes in one year let alone two would be MASSIVE. I don't fancy having to fork out too much for updates. This is one reason why something based on the work at OSN or MapQuest might be better, if such a thing exists.

[AliOnHols]

If you are fairly happy with the OSM coverage in the areas you are planning to visit, check out these OSM apps for iOS.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IPhone

I've not investigated any of these so some may be available off-line and others not, but it may be worth having a play around with them to see if any take your fancy.
_________________
Garmin Nuvi 2599
Android with CamerAlert, OsmAnd+, Waze & TT Europe.
TomTom GO 730, GO 930, GO 940 & Rider2.
SatMap Active 10 & 20.

[SRMoll]

I had a good look at those, especially those that indicated some sort of offline operation. The information is very patchy isn't it!

Even those that claim offline working, it may not be for everything, i.e. it might load the maps onto the phone for use off line, but still rely on an internet connection for calculating routes.

The other thing I find is that even those are regionalised. So you end up having to decide whether or not to buy a UK and Europer OSM based app. There is usually no indication on whether or not the app can download further OSM data to cover other areas. One has to assume that given most of them are charging for different regions as separate apps, there will be no facility to extend coverage within the app, with downloads from OSM limited to updates to the region paid for.

None of them give any viewable maps that I could see. So you have the situation where a UK and Europe OSM based navigation app, points you at the OSM website for coverage details, which is clearly global.

So a bit of a mess really.

The search continues.

[dales]

The Garmin City Navigator map seems to have pretty detailed street-level coverage of Maceio, and other towns.

Dales
_________________
nuvi 2599LMT-D, oregon 700, basecamp, memory-map.

[SRMoll]

How did you confirm that Dales, because I couldn't find a way to do that.

I get as far as the coverage page for City Navigator Brazil (https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=11163), which has a blue coloured coverage map. There is a note at the side that says "Click on the map to launch our interactive map viewer*. Pan and zoom to see detailed roads and points of interest included with this purchase.". However, when I click on the map, nothing happens. Also, there is another note that not very helpfully says "Note: Interactive Map may show additional coverage not included in purchased region.", so effectively, what you see in the coverage map, ain't necessarily what you're going to get.

I sent an email to Garmin about this, but no response as yet.

[dales]

Yes, the interactive map for Brazil is broken. But on the Garmin site, if you go back up one level, to On The Road Maps, you can look at the South America map, for which the interactive map DOES work. (The representation is quite poor though - it shows roads as a single black line, which is not how it is on the satnav - I have it on mine).

Dales.
_________________
nuvi 2599LMT-D, oregon 700, basecamp, memory-map.

[jolly47roger]

Have you considered a backup solution of raster maps?

Mobile Atlas Creator will extract Open Street Map renders and convert to AFTrack format that Multiplans will use on an iPhone/Pad.

[SRMoll]

I have installed Skobbler SatNav2 onto my iPhone and paid to be able to use world wide maps. Cost: £1.49 for the App, and £7.99 for world wide map access.

Used it to navigate from home to Gatwick Airport. It works, but is missing some things I like. For example, I always turn off any U-turn functions, and that isn't possible with SatNav2. So the all to frequent requests to do a u-turn as soon as possible is annoying, especially on the motorway or a dual carriage way with central reservation!!

The other downside is that finding destinations by address/postcode/zip code is only possible if the Phone is able to access the internet. So because data roaming will be off, I will have to remember to be careful that I get all the destinations I think I might need saved into the phone before hand. That shouldn't be a massive headache, unless SWMBO decides, whilst out and about to go somewhere not previously planned, which unfortunately has a fairly high probability.

Assuming it works at least as well as that in Brazil, it will be a massive help, as the wife is hopeless with maps and directions and besides the paper maps I have seen in Brazil are pretty poor.

But I have also found something else that looks quite promising...

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Map_On_Garmin#Installing_the_map_onto_your_GPS

http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/

http://talkytoaster.info/ukmaps.htm

I am going to give these a try too. Not only will this mean I might be able to use my trusty Garmin Nuvi in Brazil, rather than trying to perch the iPhone somewhere. It also promises to provide a cheaper way to keep the Garmin Nuvi usable into the future. I'm afraid I begrudge having to pay almost half the cost of a new GPS just to update the map on a single device, or almost the cost of a new GPS for lifetime updates from Garmin. Free updates from OSM is very attractive, even given some niggles with accuracy and functionality, but lets face it, my 255 is still using 2008 maps, so the accuracy is only to get worse anyway as more roads are built, priorities changes and junction layouts reorganised.

[AliOnHols]

Thanks for the update SRMoll, hope it all works well for you.
_________________
Garmin Nuvi 2599
Android with CamerAlert, OsmAnd+, Waze & TT Europe.
TomTom GO 730, GO 930, GO 940 & Rider2.
SatMap Active 10 & 20.

[SRMoll]

Well I spent some time last night faffing around...

Rescued a 2GB Transflash card from my defunct Nokia N95. Wiped it, created a "GARMIN" folder on it. Downloaded the routable contoured UK maps from TalkyToaster, copied to the flash card and renamed the file to GMAPSUPP.IMG, popped it in the Nuvi 255 and powered it up. Lo and behold, an additional set of maps is available. I haven't had a chance to try it out on the road yet though.

The main drawback with OSM sourced maps is the lack of proper address lookup. I.e. no postcode search and limited searching of addresses by other means. Favourites still show up though, so it looks as though the same applies as with Skobbler on the iPhone, i.e. I will have to save as many likely visiting locations as possible on the Garmin as favourites. Once out and about though, the only way to add a new point, is to find it visually by panning and zooming around the map. I have an iPad which will have the same maps on, so that might be much better for finding locations that way, and hopefully transferring them into the GPS as lat-longs.

Also I have read that routing options and performance using OSM maps on the Garmin, although it works, may not be up to the standard seen with proper Garmin maps.

In an email discussion I had with the author of the Skobbler app for the iPhone, the problem with OSM is that although the actual map data in terms of road layout is pretty good, the metadata that would be used for doing things like address searches, junction layouts, one way street directions etc, is often simply missing, and in any event is in a strange format that is not easy to make use of, which is why (apparently) most app's that use OSM, use online searches to pinpoint locations.

Anyway, it does look as though I will have a couple of options to make use of in Brazil. I will probably use the Garmin the most, as it can be stuck to the windscreen. The iPhone will be a useful backup, and the iPad for map browsing to pinpoint locations if they aren't already in the favourites list.

I'll keep you posted.

[SRMoll]

Well I'm back...

Skobbler GPS Nav 2 : I gave up on this after a day or so. Once you have a waypoint in there it works fine(ish), but there are serious issues with the app overall. Navigation is generally OK, but it is far too eager to try and get you to do U-turns, and often on dual carriageways, where a U-turn is not possible. You can't turn U-turns off like I can with my Garmin. The biggest problem was with the creation and management of favourites and POIs. I could create them, but although there is an edit feature to change the details of the saved position, the changes weren't visible in the favourites list. So when I attempted to create a list of favourites for the places I would be visiting in Brazil, I ended up with a list of nameless favourites, the only way to find out which was which was to open them and see the edited information. The edited name was not repeated in the list itself. This was what stopped me using it all.

I also tried Geolife's Navfree, but this needed a live data connection so, no go.

I also took a look at Nav4D Brazil, but this has a hideous map browsing GUI, so I binned that almost straight away.

So I stuck to my trusty Garmin Nuvi 255 loaded with the OSM maps. There were a surprising number of POIs already loaded into the maps, which proved useful many times. The routing was not too bad, only suffering where roads had been badly defined by the open community editing the map data. For example, dirt tracks classed like A-roads and vice versa. A lot of meta data missing for one way street directions, no left or right turns etc. There is also a lot of detail missing, but saying that, there was enough detail for the navigation to still be useful, but you had to keep your wits about you.

To be honest I preferred having an old GPS in the windscreen than my iPhone too, as I would have far less upset at having it stolen.

So all in all, a good experiment, and really pleased at how it worked out.

[AliOnHols]

Welcome back SRMoll and thanks for sharing your experiences. I have a soft spot for OSM so I'm rather pleased that it worked well for you.
_________________
Garmin Nuvi 2599
Android with CamerAlert, OsmAnd+, Waze & TT Europe.
TomTom GO 730, GO 930, GO 940 & Rider2.
SatMap Active 10 & 20.

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