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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 10118
Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
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 Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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@ WazaG. Were you seriously proposing the most complicated method of telling drivers the current speed limit that I have ever come across. Even more comples than Privateer's. What's wrong with the boards that are currently in use?
@Anita. Good choice of car  |
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Oldboy
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Dec 08, 2004
Posts: 10642
Location: Suffolk, UK
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Anita wrote: | | I've just bought a Honda Jazz, and the speedo reads exactly the same as my TomTom. |
That's Honda for you. 
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Richard
TT 910 V7.903: Europe Map v1045
TT Via 135 App 12.075: Europe Map v1120 |
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Wazza_G
Lifetime Member
Joined: Jan 10, 2006
Posts: 585
Location: Guildford (Regrettibly)
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| M8TJT wrote: | @ WazaG. Were you seriously proposing the most complicated method of telling drivers the current speed limit that I have ever come across. Even more comples than Privateer's. What's wrong with the boards that are currently in use?
@Anita. Good choice of car |
That's not difficult. That's easy.
In fact it's the system we use on the railway.
We get speed boards & when the speeds drop by a certain percentile (33% or more) we get a warning board to tell us.
So for us we would have...
A significant speed drop will get you one of these...
Followed by a board like the 85 one, except with 50 on it.
So what's so difficult about having electronic versions of them? Nothing.
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Be alert.. This country needs more lerts. |
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DennisN
Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14892
Location: Keynsham
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Bunty1948 wrote: | | I was for ever checking my speedo to ensure that I didn't creep over the speed limit. I would also like to point out, as a recently retired highway engineer, that it is inappropriate speed that is dangerous and not just speed itself. |
You were checking for creep not because it's difficult, but because you were driving too fast as a base speed - drive BELOW the speed limit, not UP TO it.
As a retired highway administrator, I know a guy who as a highway engineer likes to point out that cars are the creation of the devil and bicycles should ALWAYS use footpaths (so he painted bikes on loads of footpaths in Bristol  ).
| Anita wrote: | | I've just bought a Honda Jazz, and the speedo reads exactly the same as my TomTom. |
So drivers with 100% accurate speedometers are excused for deliberately driving at over 80 in a 70mph zone. The rest of us with inaccurate speedometers (say 5 - 10% over) are permitted to drive at over 85 or even 90. 
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Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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DennisN
Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14892
Location: Keynsham
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:21 pm Post subject: Re: Motorways Trial New Speed Limit As Nearly Half Exceed 70 |
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| Andy_P wrote: | | As soon as you KNOW your speedo is wrong (or even if you don't!), then you are perfectly entitled to drive faster than it indicates if you still remain within the law. |
"It's OK, Hoccifer of the Law, my speedo is wrong so I wasn't speeding". C'mon, Andy, you'd fail your driving test if your speedo went over the limit, even if you told the examiner it's wrong and you're not speeding. If your speedo says you are doing 15 more than the limit, you ARE doing 15 over the limit - there's no other way of interpreting it.
I wasn't talking about "ignoring" a law, I said "breaking" - changing that to the more acceptable "ignoring" is cosmetic. And the way to change the law is to break it?  Popular opinion is GOOD opinion - bring back hanging?
How is it not technically feasible to prosecute for zero tolerance levels? Are the cameras not accurate? When somebody is nicked for speeding, can they get away with saying the camera isn't accurate enough to be legal? What would be the difference in accuracy for prosecution of 31 in a 30 zone? All it needs is a little publicity saying that henceforth, zero tolerance is the situation. After all, even today the speed limit of 30mph is NOT 30 to 35, it's 30.
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Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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Tim Buxton
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: 14/09/2002 20:56:18
Posts: 5231
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| Anita wrote: | | Not necessarily, Dennis. I've just bought a Honda Jazz, and the speedo reads exactly the same as my TomTom. |
My Honda (CR-V, 2009 model) reads 72-73 at a GPS-based speed of 70.Looks like I need a new car. 
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Tim |
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MaFt
Pocket GPS Staff
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 15138
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:19 am Post subject: |
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| Tim Buxton wrote: | | Privateer wrote: | This would be a good opportunity to replace the National Speed Limit Roundels on motorways with a roundel showing the actual speed limit (for solo cars and motorbikes).
Once that's been done, the remaining National Speed Limit Roundels on other roads could be replaced by roundels showing the actual speed limit.
Regards, |
Why? What's wrong with what we have now? |
Presumably the fact that it doesn't tell you the speed? The 'white circle with black line' means 60 on a 'normal' road and 70 on a dual carriageway. Why not just put a 60 sign up and a 70 sign up? Helps everyone then...
MaFt |
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Kremmen
Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Posts: 7040
Location: Reading
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| Oldboy wrote: | | Anita wrote: | | I've just bought a Honda Jazz, and the speedo reads exactly the same as my TomTom. |
That's Honda for you. |
Not always. 
My previous MY07 Civic used to read 75 when the Garmin (and Talex when I had it) was reading 70.
My current MY09 Civic reads 72 when the GPS speed is bang on 70 as Honda responded to criticism when performing the Civic MY09 facelift.
One of the problems of having a digital speedo.
Some Civic owners have resorted to installing a 'Speedo Healer' and calibrated it to be spot on.
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Tim Buxton
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: 14/09/2002 20:56:18
Posts: 5231
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| MaFt wrote: |
Presumably the fact that it doesn't tell you the speed? The 'white circle with black line' means 60 on a 'normal' road and 70 on a dual carriageway. Why not just put a 60 sign up and a 70 sign up? Helps everyone then...
MaFt |
OK, so what if you're driving a lorry? Or towing a trailer? What about an articulated lorry under 7.5 tonnes MWL?
The black slash means "National speed limit for what you're driving"; a roundel with a number in it doesn't.
So really, you'd only be helping the car driver, car derived van driver not exceeding 2 tonnes MWL or motorcycle rider, none of whom is towing.
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Tim |
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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 10118
Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| Tim Buxton wrote: | OK, so what if you're driving a lorry? Or towing a trailer? What about an articulated lorry under 7.5 tonnes MWL?
The black slash means "National speed limit for what you're driving"; a roundel with a number in it doesn't. |
That's the best 'gotcha' and conversation killer that I have heard for a long time. Simples Seems that the authorites did think it through before implementation. |
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Anita
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Posts: 3219
Location: Windlesham, Surrey
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| DennisN wrote: | | Anita wrote: | | I've just bought a Honda Jazz, and the speedo reads exactly the same as my TomTom. |
So drivers with 100% accurate speedometers are excused for deliberately driving at over 80 in a 70mph zone. |
I wasn't suggesting any driver should be excused for speeding, just pointing out that your statement | Quote: | | . . . whatever the speed limit, their speedometers are reading A LOT MORE than the speed limit - so to be nicked on the motorway, their speedos must be reading at least 85. |
doesn't always apply.
@ Tim Buxton: I'm afraid you can't use that as an excuse to buy a new car, as my Jazz is two years older than your CR-V! Maybe it's just the Jazz speedo that's accurate, because they know the little old ladies who drive them won't exceed the speed limit. My sister also has a Jazz and her speedo is spot on too.
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Anita
TomTom VIA 135 - App 12.075
UK map 1125.12264
Samsung Galaxy S21 |
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Oldboy
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Dec 08, 2004
Posts: 10642
Location: Suffolk, UK
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| Anita wrote: | | My sister also has a Jazz and her speedo is spot on too. |
It must be a Jazz thing then. SWMBO also has one, and it's spot on. 
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Richard
TT 910 V7.903: Europe Map v1045
TT Via 135 App 12.075: Europe Map v1120 |
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MaFt
Pocket GPS Staff
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 15138
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| Tim Buxton wrote: | | MaFt wrote: |
Presumably the fact that it doesn't tell you the speed? The 'white circle with black line' means 60 on a 'normal' road and 70 on a dual carriageway. Why not just put a 60 sign up and a 70 sign up? Helps everyone then...
MaFt |
OK, so what if you're driving a lorry? Or towing a trailer? What about an articulated lorry under 7.5 tonnes MWL?
The black slash means "National speed limit for what you're driving"; a roundel with a number in it doesn't.
So really, you'd only be helping the car driver, car derived van driver not exceeding 2 tonnes MWL or motorcycle rider, none of whom is towing. |
Ah OK, yeah, that makes sense! . However, aren't there areas that have a '40' sign but for other vehicles the speed is different? Or am I imagining other countries laws now?
MaFt |
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Andy_P
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005
Posts: 19991
Location: West and Southwest London
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:34 am Post subject: Re: Motorways Trial New Speed Limit As Nearly Half Exceed 70 |
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| DennisN wrote: | | Andy_P wrote: | | As soon as you KNOW your speedo is wrong (or even if you don't!), then you are perfectly entitled to drive faster than it indicates if you still remain within the law. |
"It's OK, Hoccifer of the Law, my speedo is wrong so I wasn't speeding". C'mon, Andy, you'd fail your driving test if your speedo went over the limit, even if you told the examiner it's wrong and you're not speeding. |
Sorry... totally disagree.
If I went to a driving test and told them I had proof that my speedometer was inaccurate and that I had a calibrated alternative in the car (I'm not talking about a TomTom here), they would have absolutely no right to fail me just for going over the indicated speed on the original speedo.
| DennisN wrote: | | If your speedo says you are doing 15 more than the limit, you ARE doing 15 over the limit - there's no other way of interpreting it. |
No... by definition, and by every law of the land, you're not.
| DennisN wrote: | | How is it not technically feasible to prosecute for zero tolerance levels? Are the cameras not accurate? |
No, I don't think they are. Every scientific instrument has a tolerance and inaccuracy specification, even under perfect conditions.
And pointing a camera at a street full of cars is certainly not perfect conditions anyway.
| DennisN wrote: | | When somebody is nicked for speeding, can they get away with saying the camera isn't accurate enough to be legal? |
Yes, certainly.
We have all heard of convictions that have been thrown out because the equipment had not been certificated and therefore could not be guaranteed accurate.
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bmuskett
Lifetime Member
Joined: May 12, 2006
Posts: 710
Location: Stockport, Cheshire
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| MaFt wrote: | Ah OK, yeah, that makes sense! . However, aren't there areas that have a '40' sign but for other vehicles the speed is different? Or am I imagining other countries laws now?
MaFt |
You are not quite imagining it, speed limits are different for different vehicles and types of roads - Speed limits and speeding.
However that table does still refer to the national speed limit. And I don't know what applies where there is a specific posted limit. |
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