Home PageFacebookRSS News Feed
PocketGPS
Web
Read the current newsletter! Weekly
Newsletter
SatNav,GPS,Navigation
Get Speed Camera Warnings For SatNavs Get Speed Camera Warnings For Android Get Speed Camera Warnings For iPhone
Pocket GPS World - SatNavs | GPS | Speed Cameras: Forums

Pocket GPS World :: View topic - Ordnance Survey - Don't Blame Us For SatNav Map Issues
 Forum FAQForum FAQ   SearchSearch   UsergroupsUsergroups   ProfileProfile   Log in for private messagesLog in for private messages   Log inLog in 

Ordnance Survey - Don't Blame Us For SatNav Map Issues
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Pocket GPS World Forum Index -> News And Latest Information
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Darren
Pocket GPS Staff
Pocket GPS Staff


Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40
Posts: 23847
Location: Hampshire, UK

PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:48 am    Post subject: Ordnance Survey - Don't Blame Us For SatNav Map Issues Reply with quote

pocketgpsworld.com
The Ordnance Survey have used a blog post here to respond to some of the most common complaints about satnav mapping and to explain their involvement in the map data business.

The blog post covers a number of problems and explains that whilst the OS supply some of the underlying map data, the routing data is often specific to the companies that author the resulting satnav maps, in most cases Navteq and TomTom Maps (formerly Tele Atlas).

In the case of HGV's becoming stranded down narrow lanes, they place the blame firmly in the hands of the drivers who rely on products designed for car users only.

It's an interesting topic albeit only touching on the biggest complaint of all, map currency. The map authors have repeatedly claimed that the time between data acquisition and availability in published maps has been reducing year on year. So why do we continue to receive examples of errors that have existed for years without correction or new roads that remain unmapped?

Our forums were recently abuzz following replies from TeleAtlas. Forum members were receiving replies to errors submitted 3 or 4 years previously. The delay alone is maddening enough but in a number of cases the emails claimed no error had been found despite adamant complaints to the contrary.

You can read the OS Blog Post here.
_________________
Darren Griffin - Editor
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Privateer
Pocket GPS Moderator
Pocket GPS Moderator


Joined: 30/12/2002 17:36:20
Posts: 4480
Location: Oxfordshire, England, UK

PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have little sympathy for Ordnance Survey. As a government agency they are funded by the UK government, therefore they are funded by our taxes. Unfortunately the OS used to (and probably still do) charge the earth for electronic map data, where as I believe the US equivalent provides electronic map data either for free or at affordable rates.

As an example, Bo Beep and I like to visit the Channel Islands and in particular Jersey on a regular basis. Ordnance Survey have had paper maps and electronic map data of Jersey for a long time, yet SatNavs had to wait until Navteq and Tele Atlas actually visited the islands and physically map them before data was available for SatNavs to use.

Regards,
_________________
Robert.
iPhone 6s Plus, iOS 10.3.3: iOS CamerAlert v2.0.7
Garmin Camper 770 LMT-D - because TomTom GO Mobile iOS is so awful
TomTom (UK & ROI and Europe) iOS apps v1.29; TomTom GO Mobile iOS 1.9.2
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Darren
Pocket GPS Staff
Pocket GPS Staff


Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40
Posts: 23847
Location: Hampshire, UK

PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't have it both ways. OS is a Govt Agency but is a positive net contributor and is not subsidised. It's map licence fees pay of the data collection and the running of the agency.

I'd far rather those who used the data paid for it than have every tax payer in the country burdened with their costs so that a few of us could have free data.
_________________
Darren Griffin - Editor
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
MaFt
Pocket GPS Staff
Pocket GPS Staff


Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 13796
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire

PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought OS had made some data available for free anyway?!

Anyway, we're almost going off topic...!

MaFt
_________________
MaFt®
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Wazza_G
Lifetime Member


Joined: Jan 10, 2006
Posts: 580
Location: Guildford (Regrettibly)

PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Better still, why not get OS to develop Sat-Navs & then at least we'll know that the data will be pretty accurate & it would bring in a nice revenue stream.

Oops. So sorry, I've just had a sensible idea. Embarassed
_________________
Be alert.. This country needs more lerts.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sadgeek
Occasional Visitor


Joined: Feb 03, 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Privateer, but I disagree with you.

Yes the OS is a government agency, but I don't see why TomTom/Garmin should get free access to the data that has been collected with my taxes just so they can sell it back to me again for a huge profit to themselves. Effectively I'd end up paying twice for the data (once for the collection then again when TT decide to update their maps & charge me accordingly).

Don't fool yourself into thinking that if the data was free then the cost of maps would come down too - it's all £££ to them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bishopstrow
Occasional Visitor


Joined: Feb 25, 2011
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren is correct, OS is a government agency, but it receives NO funding at all from the British taxpayer via the government, all of it's revenue comes from licensing and the sale of map services.

The detail and resource that OS put into building and maintaining accurate mapping of the UK really doesn't get seen by 99% of the population, it's certainly no light undertaking and I can see where their frustration lies, the same as mine when they work to produce and keep maps as current as possible, yet the satnavs lag behind generations of maps before changes appear in the car.

I have no vested interest in OS, except I used to consult for them on various projects, and know their standards and expectations.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Guivre46
Frequent Visitor


Joined: Apr 14, 2010
Posts: 1262
Location: West London

PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I pay £11 for a new UK road map, am I buying the publisher's version of the road network, or an OS based version? If the latter, presumably some percentage is payment for a licence to use the information. If this is the case the sum does not seem that large - so why not pay it as part of the price of purchasing TA/TT or Navteq maps?
_________________
Mike R [aka Wyvern46]
Go 530T - unsupported
Go550 Live [not renewed]
Kia In-dash Tomtom
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
andycabs
Occasional Visitor


Joined: Jul 13, 2007
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I drive a Taxi in Canterbury. I have used a Tom Tom GO 910 for many years.

The map updates I pay for have never included many new roads, this was very apparent in the latest update last month, some roads as old as 4 years were still not included, but were present in the Iphone App "Navfree".

TT's response to my complaint so far has been that they do not use "open source maps" as used with Navfree...but use Teleatlas. They asked me to provide details of the roads they missed.

My reply to them was a little robust-why should I be doing the job that I pay them to do? I rely on the accuracy of their maps to locate roads out of my area. After paying for this service I do not expect to only find some roads on this free app on my Iphone.

I do not think it unreasonable to expect their mapping company to have roads that have been there several years...I await response now I have the latest map update from TT still without many roads and have complained again to them
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yladnhoj
Occasional Visitor


Joined: Jan 03, 2011
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not convinced OS are as good as they like to think! On the one hand there is a new (side) road in my area which is shown on OS maps but is not included yet by TomTom. On the other hand the new (quite complicated) junction between the A52 and the A46 is yet to appear on the OS maps and is marked on them as 'opening late 2011' despite having been in use for several months already. Also I recently came across the closure of a gap in the dual cariageway which is yet to be picked up by OS. A 'no right turn' at the junction of two major roads has yet to be picked up by TomTom despite having been existence for several years! On balance OS is probably better than TomTom but both could improve.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
andycabs
Occasional Visitor


Joined: Jul 13, 2007
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yladnhoj wrote:
I'm not convinced OS are as good as they like to think! On the one hand there is a new (side) road in my area which is shown on OS maps but is not included yet by TomTom. On the other hand the new (quite complicated) junction between the A52 and the A46 is yet to appear on the OS maps and is marked on them as 'opening late 2011' despite having been in use for several months already. Also I recently came across the closure of a gap in the dual cariageway which is yet to be picked up by OS. A 'no right turn' at the junction of two major roads has yet to be picked up by TomTom despite having been existence for several years! On balance OS is probably better than TomTom but both could improve.


I have received all replies from Tomtom and their cavalier arrogance is startling! They tell me that the Mapping firm "Tele Atlas" has updated my 910 to the latest UK and Ireland map? All they can suggest to me is that I submit to Tele atlas all the new roads I am aware of. To do so would involve considerable effort on my part, I have a long list of new local roads some as old as 4 years. I remain of the view that it should not be me as the customer to do their job for them...I pay substantially for them to provide an up to date mapping.

If there are so many missing locally that I know of; I have scant confidence should I need to find a particular road in another area using the Tom tom device. If this happens, and it does often, I use the free App on my iphone of open source "Navfree" and this has always had the information I require.

Despite the splendid navigation of the Tomtom device with all its whistles and bells I have now concluded that its basic maps are pretty useless, when it needs replacing I shall be looking for another manufacturer that provides reliable up to date mapping and may give a little more considered response to any customer complaints.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Andy_P
Pocket GPS Moderator
Pocket GPS Moderator


Joined: Jun 04, 2005
Posts: 19991
Location: West and Southwest London

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andycabs wrote:
I shall be looking for another manufacturer that provides reliable up to date mapping and may give a little more considered response to any customer complaints.


There aren't many pnds that can use open source mapping.
So basically you've got a choice between units that use TeleAtlas and those that use Navteq maps.
You'll find there are almost as many complaints about Navteq if you browse the web forums.
_________________
"Settling in nicely" ;-)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
andycabs
Occasional Visitor


Joined: Jul 13, 2007
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy_P wrote:
andycabs wrote:
I shall be looking for another manufacturer that provides reliable up to date mapping and may give a little more considered response to any customer complaints.


There aren't many pnds that can use open source mapping.
So basically you've got a choice between units that use TeleAtlas and those that use Navteq maps.
You'll find there are almost as many complaints about Navteq if you browse the web forums.


If that is the case then I suppose selection criteria would have to be measured response to customer complaint and their willingness to shoot a rocket up the mapping company to produce up to date products. Tom Tom have certainly done themselves no favours with a "take it or leave it" attitude.

So, who would you put your money on "teleatlas" or "Navteq"???
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Darren
Pocket GPS Staff
Pocket GPS Staff


Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40
Posts: 23847
Location: Hampshire, UK

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andycabs wrote:
So, who would you put your money on "teleatlas" or "Navteq"???

It would be impossible to separate them, neither is perfect and Navteq is no better at correcting errors. Consequently, for me it is the device that is the key component, not the map supplier.

Tele Atlas is now called TomTom Maps and has been owned by them for some time. Navteq is owned by Nokia.
_________________
Darren Griffin - Editor
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
MaFt
Pocket GPS Staff
Pocket GPS Staff


Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 13796
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
It would be impossible to separate them, neither is perfect and Navteq is no better at correcting errors.


In my experience, Navteq attend to and fix my reported map errors. TomTom maps apparently feel that nothing needs changing...

Personally, for my area, I prefer Navteq mapping however when down south I tend to find TomTom mapping more up to date with regards to road speeds etc.

MaFt
_________________
MaFt®
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website







Posted: Today    Post subject: Pocket GPS Advertising

Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Pocket GPS World Forum Index -> News And Latest Information All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Powered by phpBB 2.0.11 © 2001 phpBB Group
phpBB port v2.1 based on Tom Nitzschner's phpbb2.0.6 upgraded to phpBB 2.0.4 standalone was developed and tested by:
ArtificialIntel, ChatServ, mikem,
sixonetonoffun and Paul Laudanski (aka Zhen-Xjell).

Version 2.1 by Nuke Cops © 2003 http://www.nukecops.com

Make a Donation



CamerAlert Database

Click here for the PocketGPSWorld.com Speed Camera Database

Download Speed Camera Database
16.073 (18 Jul 18)



WORLDWIDE SPEED CAMERA SPOTTERS WANTED!

Click here to submit camera positions to the PocketGPSWorld.com Speed Camera Database


12mth Subscriber memberships awarded every week for verified new camera reports!

Submit Speed Camera Locations Now


CamerAlert Apps



iOS QR Code






Android QR Code







© Terms & Privacy


GPS Shopping