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GPS with easting and northing input
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AllyCat
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Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 376
Location: Catford, London, UK

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

STBOUK wrote:
The device must navigate as close as it can using public roads, bridleways, and footpaths.
Hi,

That I think probably is "impossible". The problem is that footpaths and field boundaries, etc. are only on OS (Explorer, etc.) maps, but these are just "pictures" (of a paper map) so are not automatically navigable. The vector maps used by satnavs don't have footpaths and even byways and lanes, etc. can be unreliable.

I don't have one myself but I think the nearest you'll get at the moment is a Garmin mapping handheld GPS (say 130 upwards) with a suitable "Streets" map (maybe another 100). These can be set to navigate you along the roads which it knows about, and then can direct you as the crow flies to the final GR. You probably will have to convert manually from E/N (12 digits) to OSGB format (two letters + two sets of 5 digits (just the first digit removed from the E and N GRs).

Ultimately, a full solution may become available on a Smartphone. You'd want to have both a (car) Satnav app (for autorouting a vehicle) and an OS mapping app (for cross-country), plus someone to write a simple OSGB-Lat/Long GR conversion app for the satnav element (I wouldn't hold my breath for the E/N format).

I hate to disagree with Oldboy, but isn't UTM yet another format? It is indeed also based on 1 metre squares but the left hand corner of the UK E/N grid is not the corner of a UTM zone. My Memory Map puts the corner of square SV (E/N=000000000000) at about UTM "29N 603903E 5513702N". Note that MM uses 7-digit northings with only N and S letter codes (not the more usual 6 digits + most letters).

Cheers, Alan.
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sussamb
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Joined: Mar 18, 2011
Posts: 4385
Location: West Sussex

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AllyCat is right, you certainly won't get navigation along footpaths etc. If you're prepared to do the conversion into lat/long then a cheaper, and more suitable, option would be to buy something like a Garmin 13xx or 14xx series, and then load free maps from a site like

http://www.talkytoaster.info/ukmaps.htm

The Garmin would then navigate you along roads to the closest point it has in its routeable database, and you would then be able to use the free mapping to navigate manually from there to the incident as you would be able to see on screen where you were, where the flag is and whether there are any footpaths etc that you might be able to follow.

Doesn't get round the conversion problem though Sad
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STBOUK
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Joined: Sep 20, 2006
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding footpaths I meant exactly what you interpreted, sussamb; navigate to the nearest point using public rights of way to whatever degree exists in the device map. I am sure I have used my iPAQ PDA-based TomTom (now defunct) down bridleways when out mountain biking, for example.

As mentioned before I will follow up the handheld devices and pay particular attention to what you have just informed, thanks, sussamb and AllyCat. It may be a few weeks before I post my findings due to holiday and work related travel abroad, but eventually, I will. (and I will...!)

Cheers.
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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
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Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 10118
Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

STBOUK wrote:
Quite a shame as the software modification required (GUI and algorithm or look-up table) is not rocket science
But the formulae required are close to it Very Happy
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Andy_P
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Joined: Jun 04, 2005
Posts: 19991
Location: West and Southwest London

PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

STBOUK wrote:

The string as received looks like this 427484253338 but when a space is put in the middle it becomes an easting and a northing like this 427484 253338.


This is probably a question for AlleyCat...

Just out of interest (and to save me wading through some of the articles mentioned), is this system the one I mentioned (which I'd never heard of previously) where the coordinates are measured from the bottom left corner of the bottom left grid square of a grid covering the UK?

Secondly, doesn't it have a better name than "Easting/Northing"?
It's not NGRand it's not UTM and it's not OSGB (although based on the OSGB36 datum) So is it REALLY just called "Easting/Northing"?
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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
The Other Tired Old Man


Joined: Apr 04, 2006
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Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK

PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are not the first (2?) numbers nin each group equivelent to the square number in OSGB with the remaining numbers the usual Eastings/Northings in the OSGB co-ordinate?
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AllyCat
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Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 376
Location: Catford, London, UK

PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Yes it seems to be a purely numeric version of the well-known Ordnance Survey Grid. As such, it's rather easier to handle mathematically than the OSGB letter squares (which really need a look-up table because of the "super" grid of 500km squares), and the Easting and Northing are in separate data fields.

It only requires one additional digit prefixing the Easting (since the UK is less than 700km wide) but the Northing adds two digits for the northern Scottish Isles (12 for the Shetlands). I'm not sure of the convention, but the leading zero(s) seems to be omitted (unlike normal OSGB GRs) in this case. Suppressing leading zeros is something that I've found a real "gotcha" with UTM gridded maps.

No I don't know of any other name. The nearby.org.uk site which I linked above refers to the "normal" OSGB grid as "National Grid Reference (NGR) - OSGB 36" and the numeric version "Easting/Northing - OSGB36".

Cheers,

Alan.
_________________
Garmin GPS72H/76/60/45, Etrex H, Mapsource v6.5.
Acer N50,HP114,Loox N560,Dell x50,CF/SD cards to 4/32GB.
RoyalTek,Holux236,Navman B10 & Copilot(Globalsat) BT GPS,TomTom5/6.
Memory Map (v5.4.2 & v5.1.3 OS & Euro), GPS gate,OSGPSconverter.
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jolly47roger
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Joined: Jan 11, 2008
Posts: 116

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On an Android phone, Maverick allows input of OS Eastings and Northings without grid square letters : you can key them is as a waypoint and see the point on a map - it will also do the conversion for you.

It is not a routing application - but just seeing it an a map will allow you to set off in the right direction!
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takara
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Joined: Feb 01, 2011
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have a GPS enabled smartphone, Co Pilot navigation software from Alk will accept a co-ordinate input in either alpha numeric or full numeric OSGB format and enter it as a destination.

i.e. ST 12345 67890 or 312345 167890

Versions are available for iPhone, Android, & Windows Mobile.
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STBOUK
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Joined: Sep 20, 2006
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings, All.
An update as promised.

One of the well known GPS manufacturers has been extremely helpful and understanding of our need. Hopefully too they see a market because it looks like we may end up with a unit to trial in the near future. No names at this stage.
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STBOUK
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Joined: Sep 20, 2006
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:40 pm    Post subject: Success Reply with quote

As promised, the outcome of my quest. I've maintained radio silence for an extended period because I wanted to be absolutely sure of the outcome first.

We are now using a Snooper S5000 with navigation from Eastings and Northings taken from call-out text messages sent from our Emergency Operations Center ("999"). It works perfectly, giving us both the speed of coordinate input (no interim conversion to lat and long such as we were doing before) and the front-door navigation that we sought. A real time, and potentially life, saver.

A great product that does exactly what we asked for and where Snooper UK have been fantastic to work with both in terms of immediate interest and then refining the solution. So nice to find a company that really is agile and doesn't just think that it is - especially as the request came from a humble Community First Responder Scheme that they'd never have heard of . Top marks. Very Happy

http://www.snooperuk.com/products/s5000-syrius/index.html
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