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Joined: Dec 09, 2006 Posts: 219 Location: Manchester UK
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:58 pm Post subject:
There are many areas where the Police get involved or assist a person or business and a CRIMINAL offence is not involved.
With regards trespass, the guidelines were "A Police Officer MAY assist with regards a trespass"
So long as the hospital displays the correct notices I see no problem in the offending drivers being civily sued.
On a personal note I think a driver, who uses a hospital grounds as a rat-run is an idiot, should pay £45 on the 1st instance, £100 on 2nd and doubleing up every time after that. Eventually he would have to sell his car _________________ HUAWEI P30 Pro (new edition) with Speedtrap Alert & alcatel1 for SatNav
CoPilot 10 with CamerAlert
RoadHawk in-car video
Reading glasses getting thicker as is my waist
Retired but want to go back to work for a rest.
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:47 am Post subject:
Duddy wrote:
With regards trespass, the guidelines were "A Police Officer MAY assist with regards a trespass"
Sure, trespass is a civil matter but the Police will get involved if there is likely to be a breach of the peace, damage or threatening behaviour.
Duddy wrote:
On a personal note I think a driver, who uses a hospital grounds as a rat-run is an idiot, should pay £45 on the 1st instance, £100 on 2nd and doubleing up every time after that. Eventually he would have to sell his car
Yeah, sure. There are a lot of things in this world that annoy me too. Wouldn't it be great if we could just levy arbitrary fines whenever we saw fit!
Unfortunately the law doesn't work that way so it's not going to work. _________________ Gone fishing!
Joined: Dec 09, 2006 Posts: 219 Location: Manchester UK
Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:35 am Post subject:
You mis-understand me slightly, I was attempting to point out the Police assist on many occasions when a criminal offence is not being commited or is not likely to be commited.
With regards to your 2nd point, the law can be applied in many ways, it just takes the will to apply an appropriate law. The MP's thought they were immune with regards their expenses.
In a civil case evidence of a previous occurrence, of the same matter, can, and is, given after the findings. e.g. evidence of a non-criminal bankruptcy, whereupon a greater penalty may be applied.
Nothing is done, about small irritations in life, until someone stands up and tries.
Just my opinion. _________________ HUAWEI P30 Pro (new edition) with Speedtrap Alert & alcatel1 for SatNav
CoPilot 10 with CamerAlert
RoadHawk in-car video
Reading glasses getting thicker as is my waist
Retired but want to go back to work for a rest.
Joined: Sep 06, 2006 Posts: 1618 Location: East Hertfordshire
Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:13 am Post subject:
I can't help feeling that a traffic 'calming' measure, or a 'pay-on-entry/exit' (as most drivers SHOULD be using the hospital facilities or visiting) would solve this sort of problem, and possibly at less overall cost (and certainly less continuing administrative maintenance).
Rats run where it's fastest and just wouldn't bother if it took longer, or was more hassle, going through the hospital grounds. Basically, any time-'wasting' measure should do the trick. Why bother with expensive techy solutions? _________________ David
(Navigon 70 Live, Nuvi 360)
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:46 pm Post subject:
BigPerk wrote:
I can't help feeling that a traffic 'calming' measure, or a 'pay-on-entry/exit'
Basically, any time-'wasting' measure should do the trick. Why bother with expensive techy solutions?
As M8TJT says - there is the potential to make money on the techy solutions.
I don't think traffic calming would work well, emergency vehicles will often enter or leave the site at high speed and it would be wrong to slow them down. Also, the bumps often used for traffic calming cause considerable discomfort to injured people. Try riding in an ambulance with a broken/dislocated limb while they drive over traffic humps.
The "time wasting" system might work but once again this is provided it didn't slow the emergency services.
If it's a private road then they could just charge a £5 toll to use the road and use the ANPR to enforce it. If you are a legitimate user then you can get the toll waived by entering your details on a machine inside the hospital building. I guess that's a lot of admin and messing about though... _________________ Gone fishing!
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14892 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:17 pm Post subject:
A hospital where I delivered recently had something of a scheme. Every vehicle had to take a ticket on entry and the driver has to go (by foot) to a pay station on exit. If time start to end is within ten minutes, free exit, otherwise pay at the usual exhorbitant scales. I would expect such a free exit system would still add enough delay to dissuade rat runners. I didn't see what arrangements were in force for emargency ambulances, but that could surely be a separate lane/barrier. _________________ Dennis
Joined: Sep 06, 2006 Posts: 1618 Location: East Hertfordshire
Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:31 pm Post subject:
I had in mind something more like 'one way' working, to send any through traffic 'round the houses' a bit, into the parking areas, for instance. In any case, I don't honestly think emergency vehicles would really be doing high speeds in the grounds, even if there was one of that endangered species, the A&E Dept there, as surely that would be extremely hazardous.
I take the point about revenue to some extent, though I would have expected the hospital to be relying more on parking revenue - it's very expensive at our local one. But this is clearly a measure to STOP people doing the rat-running for safety reasons, so I would have expected revenue to dry up long before any installation became self-financing, as otherwise the hospital authority would be looking for a better alternative.
I know the really cynical view is that such measures are always intended to be revenue gatherers, but I do think that there is sometimes a feeling of the 'Reds Under The Bed' syndrome. _________________ David
(Navigon 70 Live, Nuvi 360)
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