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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 10118
Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
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 Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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BigPerk
Frequent Visitor
Joined: Sep 06, 2006
Posts: 1618
Location: East Hertfordshire
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | They were supposed to be dispensed with once it had been paid for, weren't they? |
I'm still trying to work out how on earth Gordon Brown's lot strangely forgot about that 'promise' 
I've got a feeling (but could well be wrong) that the M6 Toll may also become free (or not  ) once the costs have been recovered. As I think that's a private enterprise already, I think we can guess what will happen at Dartford if it changes hands.
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David
(Navigon 70 Live, Nuvi 360) |
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SteveMPS
Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jan 30, 2010
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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It would have become free in 2003 but in 2000 they passed an Act that let them charge "to reduce congestion". They promised to recycle the monies to aid road improvements. They turned out to be a mix of things they would have done anyway, sleeping policemen and guess what? Cameras!
I'll be looking at the cams tomorrow - when I looked on Friday there are defintely yellow Specs cams at two of the gantries, the rest looked very white and more like traffic monitoring cams. But you have to get the right light to even see the yellow ones are that. |
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DennisN
Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14892
Location: Keynsham
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:16 am Post subject: |
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All of you can look really closely to identify exactly where the 40mph starts - at the last 50 cam or in the middle between it and the 40 cam (which would make 40 average impossible to monitor). That'd be more useful than clarifyinging the particular shade of yellow.
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Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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DennisN
Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14892
Location: Keynsham
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:52 am Post subject: |
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| JaTe wrote: | | Yet you found it fine to criticise me |
Don't worry about it John - Verifiers and Moderators are   fair game!
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Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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spook51
Lifetime Member
Joined: Mar 26, 2004
Posts: 548
Location: East Midlands
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| DennisN wrote: | | JaTe wrote: | | Yet you found it fine to criticise me |
Don't worry about it John - Verifiers and Moderators are fair game! |
Only those who are curmudgeonly, opinionated, drift off topic and waffle but I'm sure there aren't any like that, they're all  - aren't they? |
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DennisN
Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14892
Location: Keynsham
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| spook51 wrote: | | DennisN wrote: | | JaTe wrote: | | Yet you found it fine to criticise me |
Don't worry about it John - Verifiers and Moderators are fair game! |
Only those who are curmudgeonly, opinionated, drift off topic and waffle but I'm sure there aren't any like that, they're all - aren't they? |
Well, JaTe is well known for curmudgeonlyness, being opinionated, drifting off topic and waffling. It would be self-opinionated to speak for myself.
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Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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SteveMPS
Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jan 30, 2010
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| JaTe wrote: | | . . Yet you found it fine to criticise me for looking at the cameras . . . |
[K5 mode] moi? [/K5 mode]
Actually I didn't, just expressed a hope IF you were looking intense enough to spot the fictional "ruddy great cameras" that I couldn't see with safe observation in slow traffic but we digress.
FWIW I found it's easier and safer spotting the later cams as you can look down on them from the bridge.
As a mod on two other forums I plead guilty to "curmudgeonlyness, being opinionated, drifting off topic and waffling" |
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SteveMPS
Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jan 30, 2010
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| DennisN wrote: | | All of you can look really closely to identify exactly where the 40mph starts - at the last 50 cam or in the middle between it and the 40 cam (which would make 40 average impossible to monitor). That'd be more useful than clarifyinging the particular shade of yellow. |
As of 6pm tonight the 40mph signs are exactly 250 yards before the last (40) cam. |
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DennisN
Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14892
Location: Keynsham
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| SteveMPS wrote: | | DennisN wrote: | | All of you can look really closely to identify exactly where the 40mph starts - at the last 50 cam or in the middle between it and the 40 cam (which would make 40 average impossible to monitor). That'd be more useful than clarifyinging the particular shade of yellow. |
As of 6pm tonight the 40mph signs are exactly 250 yards before the last (40) cam. |
I think we were hoping for the proximity to the preceding 50mph camera so I'm still not sure. Using a bent paperclip on our map (there are other methods which probably work!), I estimate the distance from 50 cam to 40 cam as 500 yards (assuming we have them 100% accurately positioned), so your 250yds places the change of speed limit halfway between them. I dunno how they can enforce a 40mph average there.
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Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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SteveMPS
Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jan 30, 2010
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:36 am Post subject: |
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just how was I supposed to measure the distance back to the previous cam Dennis?
What I did was clock the reading on the Tom Tom to next cam. The Lat Lons of the two cams will let you get the distance back better than your bent paper clip but I wouldn't argue with your 250 yards estimate.
Probably the most important speed limit on that whole M25/crossing ring road and if they really are std Specs cams, it's unenforceable - that's the 'wonderful' DofT for you. |
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Andy_P
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005
Posts: 19991
Location: West and Southwest London
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:16 am Post subject: |
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Are we maybe looking for problems/complications that aren't there?
So what, if the limit reduces to 40 just before the last camera?
If the entire set of SPECS is set to 50 it will catch anyone doing 50 (+the safety margin) through the whole system.
No-one has ever said they have to set the cameras at the exact same speed limit as the signs have they? (although setting them for 70 in a 50mph area would be a bit pointless!) |
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DennisN
Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14892
Location: Keynsham
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| SteveMPS wrote: | just how was I supposed to measure the distance back to the previous cam Dennis?
What I did was clock the reading on the Tom Tom to next cam. The Lat Lons of the two cams will let you get the distance back better than your bent paper clip but I wouldn't argue with your 250 yards estimate. |
I thought you only had an Inforad K1. If I'd known you have a TT with our cameras on, I'd have suggested you do exactly what you did!! In the absence of a TT, just a K1, I'd hoped you'd say the speed limit started "well after the last 50 cam, guess about halfway between the 50 and 40 cams", OR maybe "right alongside the last 50mph cam". Until you said 250 yds, I had no idea of the distance between the cameras and had to use my clunky paperclip reset tool to somehow get a measurement (500, not 250 - 250 was your distance) to compare with the scale line at the bottom of the map - it must be about as accurate as how far I think I can chuck a cheese!! I rather hoped somebody (M8TJT or MaFt) would come up with the distance as they seem able to do that sort of calculation from the coordinates - it's so far beyond me it's not even in view.
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Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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Oldboy
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Dec 08, 2004
Posts: 10642
Location: Suffolk, UK
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| DennisN wrote: | | I rather hoped somebody (M8TJT or MaFt) would come up with the distance as they seem able to do that sort of calculation from the coordinates - it's so far beyond me it's not even in view. |
http://www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/latlong.html 
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Richard
TT 910 V7.903: Europe Map v1045
TT Via 135 App 12.075: Europe Map v1120 |
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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 10118
Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| DennisN wrote: | | I rather hoped somebody (M8TJT or MaFt) would come up with the distance as they seem able to do that sort of calculation from the coordinates - it's so far beyond me it's not even in view. |
Easy to find the distance between the cams (you could possibly plot a route on one of your TTs), but I didn't know where the 40MPH limit started.
IF the cams were operational, which was originally the cut and thrust of the thread, presumably the last two cams would trap people doing over 50 betweenthe second last and last, regardless of the fact that the last cam is in a 40MPH. |
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