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M11 Speed Camera Increases Accidents and Raises £500k/Year
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MaFt
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:03 pm    Post subject: M11 Speed Camera Increases Accidents and Raises £500k/Year Reply with quote

pocketgpsworld.comThanks to PistonHeads for the initial story.

Some people call them Safety Cameras, others call them Speed Cameras. Today's news is one of the reasons for the latter!

Under the Freedom of Information Act (and with intervention from the Information Commissioner) Essex Police have shown that a camera on the M11 (Gatso 4785 in our database) brings in around £500,000 per year and that crashes have almost doubled! This is clearly one example where 'safety' is not paramount. The camera is placed on the southbound carriageway between junctions 4 and 5 where the speed drops from 70mph down to 50mph - obviously causing people to break suddenly.

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BigPerk
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting - I've found that stretch a bit treacherous as well. IIRC the camera is quite close to the 50mph sign and, as pointed out, quite near also to where the 3 lanes go down to 2. It's true I think as suggested in a comment on the article that initial speeds would probably be nearer 75-80 in practice. A fairly straightforward recipe for increased accidents?

I would assume that it's the lanes reduction that's the hazard 'justifying' the camera (probably rightly so, actually), and raking in the cash. What isn't right is the siting - if they had thought properly about safety, or perhaps not given revenue a higher priority, they would surely put the limit sign and the camera further away from the narrowing point, and possibly even step the limit down to 60 first.
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pendlemac
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So how many of those that caused the shunts were done for driving without due care and attention?

Has any one done a similar survey on that clockwise section of the M60 at J25 where the limit drops straight to 50 and is enforced with SPECS?
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DGJones10
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made my contribution to the funds a few years ago.

I drive generally within the rules and keep an eye open for limit signs and of course cameras.

I was clocked at 76mph at this camera one summer evening in daylight, which was the average speed of the flow of traffic.

Being so much over the limit I was automatically proescuted.

I am sure that at that time there was no sign on the central reservation, as I saw no sign, as I was clocked in the middle lane overtaking lorries, which presumably screened the sign on the left.

When there has been reductions in the limit it was usual in Essex to have advanced warning as on the many roadworks we experience.

I was joined at Harlow Magistrates court with a large group of law abiding citizens. Middle aged generally, housewives etc and a young air hostess returning from stansted.

I was fined £200 pounds and had the inevitable points applied, which of course increased the cost of my insurance for a few years.
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jonrome
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:37 pm    Post subject: M11 camera Reply with quote

If there has to be a camera here, it would be the ideal place for variable speedlimits. In the morning rush the traffic rarely reaches 50 mph. At 4 a.m. on a sunday morning when the is no other traffic at all, to be forced to travel at 50 mph is lunacy unless they're expecting a cyclist or a child on the motorway.
It is also badly sighted as it flashes in the eyes of drivers on the other carriageway. I remember late one night back when there were still terrorist bobms exploding, it flashed in my face & it took several miutes for my heart rate to drop to normal. A potential accident in my view.
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keefieh
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder how MONITRON:54721@50, a camera monitoring eastbound traffic on the A40 in Northolt, compares? It's shortly after a 70 to 50 MPH drop in speed limit and there are usually 'fresh' skid marks when I drive past.

Is it easy to get the revenue/crash figures?

K.
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:22 am    Post subject: Re: M11 Speed Camera Increases Accidents and Raises £500k/Ye Reply with quote

News Team wrote:
causing people to break suddenly.

Good literal report. Clap
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JaTe
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigPerk wrote:
Interesting - I've found that stretch a bit treacherous as well. IIRC the camera is quite close to the 50mph sign and, as pointed out, quite near also to where the 3 lanes go down to 2. It's true I think as suggested in a comment on the article that initial speeds would probably be nearer 75-80 in practice. A fairly straightforward recipe for increased accidents?


Some of us will probably remember years back when this section was 3 lanes wide - it was known as Gas Works Bend in those days by virtue of the old gas works on the other side of the motorway, but the worst feature of this bend was the adverse camber and resultant of this, drivers were getting into trouble at speed whilst negotiating the curve. The old 70mph limit meant nearer 90 (or more) and that is when the vehicle started to 'break away' from the driver's control.

I would think that the camera was installed at this specific point in the belief that it was the 'appropriate point' to enforce drivers to reduce speed prior to the bend and the lane reduction - perhaps there is now room to consider moving both the limit and the camera another 1/4 or 1/2 mile back up the motorway and thereby increase the run-in distance?

Having suggested the above I have to say that I personally feel there is adequate signage and every time I have driven that section of road, I have never noticed anyone pass me at a speed that has caused the camera to activate.

It would also be interesting to actually see the stats for when the crashes occured. Are they a 'peak time' phenomenon or incidents that occur when the road is less busy and particularly evening/night time?
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MaFt
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:50 am    Post subject: Re: M11 Speed Camera Increases Accidents and Raises £500k/Ye Reply with quote

DennisN wrote:
News Team wrote:
causing people to break suddenly.

Good literal report. Clap

took you 4 days to spot it though! Razz
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MaFt
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

is there a count down for the speed limit change? i.e. a greyed out 50 sign with the count-down bars or even '800yds ahead'?

coupled with a speed camera sign then that would probably be a cheap option to actually warn people to slow down in advance!

at the bottom of the m606 in bradford (one of britains most pathetic motorways) it drops to 50mph for going around a relatively sharp bend towards manchester (m62). the limit drops a good 800yards before the junction and gatso camera and has plenty of warnings for both the lower speed and the gatso. it works as people gradually slow down before the camera rather than having the speed limit change THEN suddenly get the camera. ok, people are still speeding but there isn't the sudden dangerous braking as you see the camera as you've had plenty of warning.

MaFt
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JaTe
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not that I can recall MaFt - certainly a good compromise and as the central reserve is narrow, such signs would be accommodated without causing further danger.
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BigPerk
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funnily enough, I was just wondering this morning whether I had seen preliminary warning signs on that stretch. As MaFt says it's the obvious, cheap solution, which I'm sure would solve most problems (apart from the Government's national debt that is Rolling Eyes Confused ).
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TVR_nut
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaFt wrote:
is there a count down for the speed limit change? i.e. a greyed out 50 sign with the count-down bars or even '800yds ahead'?

coupled with a speed camera sign then that would probably be a cheap option to actually warn people to slow down in advance!

at the bottom of the m606 in bradford (one of britains most pathetic motorways) it drops to 50mph for going around a relatively sharp bend towards manchester (m62). the limit drops a good 800yards before the junction and gatso camera and has plenty of warnings for both the lower speed and the gatso. it works as people gradually slow down before the camera rather than having the speed limit change THEN suddenly get the camera. ok, people are still speeding but there isn't the sudden dangerous braking as you see the camera as you've had plenty of warning.

MaFt


I regularly drove that section of motorway before the camera went in, and you can get around the bend at well over 50mph in safety (and in those days, without a NIP)!!! Twisted Evil

Happy days.

N.
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: M11 Speed Camera Increases Accidents and Raises £500k/Ye Reply with quote

MaFt wrote:
DennisN wrote:
News Team wrote:
causing people to break suddenly.

Good literal report. Clap

took you 4 days to spot it though! Razz

Nuts! - I didn't even know of this thread until I came here from the link on the Newsletter, which I didn't see until this morning. So Nah, nah, na naaaaah nah! Mr. Green
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Dennis

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JaTe
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TVR_nut wrote:

I regularly drove that section of motorway before the camera went in, and you can get around the bend at well over 50mph in safety (and in those days, without a NIP)!!! Twisted Evil

Happy days.

N.


The M606 or the M11? Sorry if I have misunderstood your reference.
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