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OpenStreetMap Data Now Available on Submission Maps
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MaFt
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

same as the our speed camera database. if no one submits it, it doesn't go in!

MaFt
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h5djr
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Read my reply. It doesn't matter if the tarmac is still wet or it was a Roman Road. OSM is a Community Map and roads get added by YOU, the Community.


Yes I'm going to go out and get the necessary hardware and software to add a road that is already on every other map I've ever seen. Many of the later roads around me are already on OSM so why not Elizabeth Court. Does not inspire much confidence to me.
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MaFt
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

h5djr wrote:
Does not inspire much confidence to me.


well, maybe no one visited you but they visited people on the other roads?

MaFt
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AliOnHols
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

h5djr wrote:
............Many of the later roads around me are already on OSM so why not Elizabeth Court. Does not inspire much confidence to me.

Open Street Map is a community project such as Wikipedia. Individuals contribute a little bit of information that they are in possession of for the greater good. A simple and basic concept would be that if everybody plotted and logged their own road the whole world would be mapped. Using this concept, it means that nobody living in your road had added the information. If you were to add it, and it doesn't take too much effort, your road would be included.

How often have you read posts here, in this forum, such as " I have just paid 70pounds and downloaded the latest maps from TT/GArmin/Whoever and they don't include a roundabout/Housing Estate/By-Pass that has been there for at least 3 years?.

We, the community have the opportunity to change this and to have access to up to date maps for free. We just need to do our little bit, or at least, someone else in your road does.
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To give you an idea of how quick changes can be made I mapped out a new roundabout on a local main road some 18+ months ago and submitted them, within a day or so these changes were available to everyone. It took TeleAtlas 12+ Months before this junction was correctly added to their map, what we really need is a GPS based navigation device that uses the OSM maps stored on the device.

There are still large regions of towns/ villages that need mapping and if you own a TomTom or PDA with GPS receiver getting the data to add to the map is easy, rewarding but addictive! - I still have some considerable work to do in my home town, just altering your route to/ from work each day by the odd local street with a logger application running is all thats needed to harvest the data - Mike
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JockTamsonsBairn
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it possible to combine the OSM with the overhead view?
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JockTamsonsBairn wrote:
Is it possible to combine the OSM with the overhead view?

Not yet, it would take someone to create an application capable of performing what people expect from a navigation device that uses OSM data before you will get 2,5D view (I know it's known as 3D but in reality its nothing like 3D) - Mike
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NickG
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The speed at which the map tiles get updated is staggering when you
consider how long it can take for TeleAtlas and NavTeq

Clearly you don't live in England Smile Although the tiles CAN be updated quickly, they are often updated very quickly with pretty awful data Sad

In most of the UK, OSM is absolutely useless compared commerical data. I've even found roads with names like "My lovely little road!" in the past. I dread to think what would happen if you were to try to use it to power a sat-nav. It may have more roads, but on OSM those roads are probably in the wrong place, have the wrong name, or aren't actually real public roads (footpaths sometimes appear as roads, farmers tracks with 14 inch ruts are classed as normal roads etc).

It's coming along, but has a long way to go before it's close to something like the TeleAtlas maps. It's a very good idea though and I hope that in a year or two's time, it will be on par with TeleAtlas and NavTeq. I've started updating some of the newer roads in my local area and fixing some of the mistakes. I just wish others wouldn't put rubbish into the system in an attempt to make their drive famous.
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NickG
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaFt wrote:
take a look at: 43.889480,25.964126 (it's in Romania - we have speed camera data there too)
then zoom out 5 or 6 levels.
which is more useful now?

Scroll south 1 mile from your example and look at the city of Pyce (Ruse) Bulgaria.

Which is more useful now? Answer: Google (TeleAtlas).

We can all find examples where OSM is better, but generally speaking for most countries, the commerical maps are way ahead at the moment. Hopefully this will change as more people start to help.
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MaFt
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NickG wrote:
Quote:
The speed at which the map tiles get updated is staggering when you
consider how long it can take for TeleAtlas and NavTeq

Clearly you don't live in England Smile Although the tiles CAN be updated quickly, they are often updated very quickly with pretty awful data Sad


i do live in england and i've found the data to be pretty darn good to be honest! only a handful of roads that were 'wrong' but that was only minor positional changes.


NickG wrote:
In most of the UK, OSM is absolutely useless compared commerical data.

i've successfully used osm maps to route me around various parts of bradford, west yorks with no issues.

NickG wrote:
I've even found roads with names like "My lovely little road!" in the past.

sadly we also get camera submissions like that... it's one of the downsides to opening things up to the public!

NickG wrote:
It may have more roads, but on OSM those roads are probably in the wrong place, have the wrong name, or aren't actually real public roads

that's a very broad statement and wholly untrue in my experiance. when was the last time you had a good look at the data? it's just celebrated it's 5th birthday and even just a couple of years ago i found the data laughable but it has come on in leaps and bounds since.

NickG wrote:
It's coming along, but has a long way to go before it's close to something like the TeleAtlas maps. It's a very good idea though and I hope that in a year or two's time, it will be on par with TeleAtlas and NavTeq. I've started updating some of the newer roads in my local area and fixing some of the mistakes. I just wish others wouldn't put rubbish into the system in an attempt to make their drive famous.

i reckon in a couple of years it'd be useable for the majority of the country, certainly in other countries (eastern europe) it is far more useable than teleatlas's current offerings.

MaFt
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NickG
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps it varies by area... I think it seems to be better around towns than rural locations. Perhaps because the roads are more heavily used and there's a higher chance that someone who's interested in OSM Mapping has/can edit it.

I must admit I've not tried it for a few months. I live in Southampton and about 9 months ago when I last looked at it in detail, it was not good enough for guided routing as there too many mistakes or missing roads in it. I've looked again now and it does seem that many fixes are in place, but many newish roads near me in Hedge End are totally missing, or have no road names attached (making them impossible to find on a sat-nav).

Perhaps we're nearing the crossing over point now (where OSM exceeds TeleAtlas) - but I think it will be a few more months yet. In my area anyway!

I think I'll fire up my Qstarz logger this evening and try and add the missing roads Smile I've not tried the java editor so I'll have a look at that too and fix some of these spelling mistakes!

:: it is far more useable than teleatlas's current offerings.

Don't forget there's a lot of hidden data and meta-data in the commerical data, which is simply not present in much of the OSM mapping. Lane guidance, vehicle weight/height restrictions, average speeds on the routes (IQ Route data), links to traffic feeds (TMC or internet based), routing metadata etc... I'm worried that users won't input this data as it's not very 'visible' and it could lag behind the commerical offerings long after the roads, POI and other more visible things have overtaken it. Road speed data is vital for accurate fastest-route routing. Hopefully OSM store the GPS logs people submit and can use them at a later date to calculate the averages for when OSM gets used on navigational devices.
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NickG
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way, this is a really useful tool for comparing OSM maps with Google maps side by side (no search though unfortunately):

http://tools.geofabrik.de/
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proctog
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's great to see OSM gaining wider acceptance (i.e. being use on PocketGPSWorld!).

I think OSM is definitely approaching a critical mass. I first looked at it about 2 years ago and much of the UK was completely blank; far too daunting for me to consider contributing to it, so I moved on and pretty much forgot about it.

That was until about 6 months ago when I stumbled across it again and the situation was vastly different - my local town was about 90% mapped, and many rural roads were in there too. That inspired me to get out and map my own village (using my iPhone) which was a thoroughly enjoyable process.

Of course there is still work to do but I think in about 2 years OSM will reach a level of completeness that will make it the defacto choice for many applications; the speed of updates is the killer feature IMO.

There's a new road just been built near where I live. I submitted it to OSM on the day they took the cones away Smile I'll be interested to see when it appears on the commercial maps ...

Glenn.
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MaFt
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NickG wrote:
Don't forget there's a lot of hidden data and meta-data in the commerical data, which is simply not present in much of the OSM mapping


there's a lot in OSM too! speed limits, speed bumps, rumble strips, chicanes, traffic lights, mini-roundabouts, turning circles (eg end of cul-de-sac).

for speed limits: when you add/edit a road, create a new field (the + on the bottom right of potlatch) and put 'Maxspeed' (should auto-suggest) - this is the road speed limit

for traffic calming: add a new point on a road and select the individual point (rather than whole road), add new field (the + on the bottom right of potlatch) and start typing 'traffic_calming' (should auto-suggest) then choose from the available options: chicane, speed bump etc.

there's a lot of extra stuff available. just look how out of date the speed limits are in TA/NT and how frustrating that it. get something running from OSM and those updates will be far quicker and far more accurate.

MaFt
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pcaouolte
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaFt wrote:
there's a lot in OSM too! speed limits, speed bumps, rumble strips, chicanes, traffic lights, mini-roundabouts, turning circles (eg end of cul-de-sac).
MaFt

Last night I added my local mini-roundabout to OSM by zooming in close and drawing a small circular road. Cleaned up the data using the button that looks like a row of dots and I have a nice small circular roundabout.

Did I do wrong? Should I have simply selected the point were all the roads meet and tagged it as a mini-roundabout?

I am new to OSM and trying to update my local area but I don't want to make their data worse in my attempts to improve it!
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