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New v8.302 software available for x20/x30 models, AND ????
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jmfarrell
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

On this occasion I was running on batteries.

Thanks,

John
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jimbo_hippo
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had similaron my 720 when running on batteries (documented in another post on here somewhere) . The screen dimmed in time with the commands issued for a while then it just gave up issuing commands but it was fine when plugged in. Haven't tried to see if the same happens on 8.302 as I do long runs so am always on power. The above scenario was when I accidentally knocked the charger out without knowing.

I'm travelling back up the country on Thursday so maybe I'll try it on batteries to see if I get the same.
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garcor
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

for what it is worth I had the same problem running 8.32 running battery only. I to had accidentally knocked the plug out and when plugged back in all was fine.
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taylorapuk
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, i was playing with v8.302 on my 920T and I did something (can't remember what) and the voices stopped. I tried a number of different things for 10 minutes or so but no luck!
Then just as I was dispairing the low battery indicator came on. I plugged the
unit in to the USB cradle and it all started working (no reset required).

Basically, it seems clear to me that the original stuttering had something to do with the mix of power availability and power comsumption on the unit. It was observed by more than one person that one of the conditions where it happened more often was when battery was low. I suspect part of the the 8.302 "fix" for this particular situation is they now turn the voice off completely if there is no enough juice to speak it properly and from what I observed this can happen before the unit starts indicating a low battery.
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jmfarrell
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's interesting what people say about the problem being worse when runing on batteries with low charge.

I know of some consumer electronics device that dynamically change the CPU clock speed under software control depending on system load to maximise battery life.

Maybe TomTom does something similar to save power when the battery is low, and maybe they reduced the clock speed a bit too much to cope with peak system load under some circumstances.

I can imagine this causing stuttering or lost audio if the system runs out of realtime and an audio buffer underrun occurs.

This is pure speculation, of course.

John
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Steveee
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In one of my support exchanges with TT Support they did say:

Quote:
Yes the device should be able to handle it and I am just back from discussing this ( at some length ) with our second line team

As the processor is running more or less flat-out they think that this could be related to battery voltage

They suggest trying the following ;

Please fully charge the device on the home charger and then take it to the car and connect it to the CLA in the car and then see if you still get the stutter and GPS lag

We do most genuinely appreciate your patience and co-operation and please rest assured we do want to be able to find a solution for you .

Your feedback will be appreciated


I did not see the lag or stutter when the battrey was fully charged. With a partially discharged battery on the return journey I observed a lag.
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taylorapuk
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Maybe TomTom does something similar to save power when the battery is low, and maybe they reduced the clock speed a bit too much to cope with peak system load under some circumstances.


Yes, we had come to a similar thought recently in the original stutter thread (page 46).

There were other conditions that it also happened in, not only low battery, but they all seem to be related to how much juice was left available to the processor, so things like whether the unit was charging, what the screen brightness was and how much current was available from the supply all influenced the probability of a stutter.

It looks to me like they have worked around the problem rather than fixed it by simply pausing the screen update briefly just before a big TTS announcement and turning the voice off completely if there still isn't enough power available. Still, these are probably less annoying than the stutter was.
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Andy_P
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

taylorapuk wrote:

Basically, it seems clear to me that the original stuttering had something to do with the mix of power availability and power comsumption on the unit. It was observed by more than one person that one of the conditions where it happened more often was when battery was low.

Not for me... It is ALWAYS run on the car charger.

Quote:
I suspect part of the the 8.302 "fix" for this particular situation is they now turn the voice off completely if there is no enough juice to speak it properly and from what I observed this can happen before the unit starts indicating a low battery.


That "feature" has been present since v8.300 at least. It's caught me out a few times while trying things out while sitting at the PC.
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Malouff
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy_P wrote:
Not for me... It is ALWAYS run on the car charger.
I think I read somewhere that the car charger does not charge the device but just supplies some running power.

I also have always used the car charger and also noticed the stuttering so if the above is true then the car charger must does not deliver enough running power so it causes the stutter. I don't think TomTom may have been supplying inadequate car chargers with the x20/x30 (at least running the original navcore)?
Something must be using more power now then before or else this would have been discovered long ago and forced a redesign.

Has the car charger changed with the x40?
Also can the x40 be run from battery and if so why did it never stutter?

Back to the x20/x30 has anyone tried a 3rd party charger or running from a USB laptop or similar back with 8.300 or 8.301 and noticed if it changed the stuttering?
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piergino
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

taylorapuk wrote:
I suspect part of the the 8.302 "fix" for this particular situation is they now turn the voice off completely if there is no enough juice to speak it properly and from what I observed this can happen before the unit starts indicating a low battery.


I had the same failure . Running with batteries (on the road) I lost the completely the voice. Then plugging in theUSB the device was "normal" again.
The battery was at middle charge. Courious to see if with device permanently plugged may happen as well.

In general I see it more like a bug instead than like a "software" strategy. In this second case
it would be absolutely unfair: to solve the stutter they just program the device shut up instead of stuttering.

In both cases, I do not accept this as solution for the stutter from TT (however I recognize that the voice cut is much more bearable than stuttering) In case it is a low battery issue I would like to see it clearly warned on the device or by TT as official user intruction. I will forward another claim to them.

In the meanwhile we should decide what to do with Andy V. 's thread, . My opinion is to go on claiming for the bad or partial solution to the stauttering issue and go on adding ticket's number.

Alessandro
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you don't like using the device with the supplied charger lead while the device is in the car I suggest you leave the unit at home, the charger lead is supplied as part of the device and needs to be used for correct opperation of the TomTom.
8,302 with a unit powered by the car does indeed seem to fix the issues we have seen for the last couple of software releases.

The low battery = no voice isn't new, this is something the device has done for some time - Mike
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Malouff wrote:
I think I read somewhere that the car charger does not charge the device but just supplies some running power.
Then what you have read somewhere is incorrect, the supplied car power lead does indeed charge the device - Mike
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jimbo_hippo
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike,
Is it not a bit bold to make the statement that the device is incomplete without the cable? I mean this is a device that has cycling and walking modes.

For a while a couple of years ago I'd cycle to work with the device in my rucksack and headphones on (I didn't always work in same place BTW so I needed it). If the voices packed up on battery power then how would I know until I cycled into the sea?
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Andy_P
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sand in your turn-ups....
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taylorapuk
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Then what you have read somewhere is incorrect, the supplied car power lead does indeed charge the device - Mike

I believe it probably depends on what power the car (or USB cradle) provides - certainly with some models (like my 920).

Again, I refer to the original stutter thread page 46 where I did some experiments and there was some discussion on the results.

In short, just because the battery is not full and you plug the unit it in to power, does not always mean that it is charging. It depends on certain conditions. To see if it is actually charging go to the info screen (the one that appears when you hit the bottom corner of the main navigation screen) and see it is says "Charging" under the battery indicator. Depending on the power supply and things like screen brightness it will not *always* say it's charging even when the battery is not full.
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