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banjo12
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Joined: Jul 28, 2006
Posts: 111
Location: Midlands
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 Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| PaulB2005 wrote: | I believe that Andy is on the right lines and the close Proximity of the other cameras makes it look like the Redlight Camera doesn't give an audio alert. If you do a trip through the junction and do a left or right turn to avoid the other fixed and mobile cameras then the alert is there.
Also if i just load the Redlight cameras and run the route again the alert is there.
There are a few locations near me where this happens due to the close proximity of 2 fixed cameras in opposite directions and 2 mobile locations.
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I have already tried that , I went through the lights going from south to north turned first left and then left twice which brought me back onto the ansty rd after the speed camera and still no alert. Oh and I thought that andy was looking into the cause of this anomaly, you seem to be quite happy to blame the Nuvi rather than to find the problem ! |
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PaulB2005
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Joined: Jan 04, 2006
Posts: 9323
Location: Durham, UK
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Just tried again and have multiple instances where it didn't do an audio alert to the cameras......  |
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Andy_P
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Joined: Jun 04, 2005
Posts: 19991
Location: West and Southwest London
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| banjo12 wrote: | | Oh and I thought that andy was looking into the cause of this anomaly, you seem to be quite happy to blame the Nuvi rather than to find the problem ! |
Actually, it's a bit tricky for me as I don't own (and never have owned) a Nuvi!
Paul is much better qualified to understand what's going on with Garmins than I am.
Also, I was blaming the Nuvi too! The database itself isn't at fault, as the cameras are definitely on there there, and the alerts work on other brands of SatNav too. So it has to be a problem with how the Nuvi is dealing with the information, doesn't it? |
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banjo12
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Joined: Jul 28, 2006
Posts: 111
Location: Midlands
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Andy_P wrote: | | banjo12 wrote: | | Oh and I thought that andy was looking into the cause of this anomaly, you seem to be quite happy to blame the Nuvi rather than to find the problem ! |
Actually, it's a bit tricky for me as I don't own (and never have owned) a Nuvi!
Paul is much better qualified to understand what's going on with Garmins than I am.
Also, I was blaming the Nuvi too! The database itself isn't at fault, as the cameras are definitely on there there, and the alerts work on other brands of SatNav too. So it has to be a problem with how the Nuvi is dealing with the information, doesn't it? |
I don't have the knowledge to make a judgement but why have 2 sets of files ie Garmin and Tom Tom if they are not tweaked to overcome these "problems" In my humble opinion the speed camera that is on the west carriage way of the ansty rd is too far away to interfere with the red light camera which is pointing east on the eastern side of the carriage way ? |
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PaulB2005
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Joined: Jan 04, 2006
Posts: 9323
Location: Durham, UK
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I don't have the knowledge to make a judgement but why have 2 sets of files ie Garmin and Tom Tom if they are not tweaked to overcome these "problems" |
Not really sure what your point is here.
First of all there are dozens of files not just Garmin and TomTom. Look down the table on this page and you'll see how many file formats there are.
Secondly you are the first person (out of thousands of subscribers) to have mentioned the problem and we're looking at it. However as you can see the problem isn't simple and straight forward. The database entry is correctly formatted and consistent with other entries. It's entirely possible that there is a problem with the Nuvi or the maps that causes this problem, however as we are not Garmin we don't have the luxury of being able to make adjustments or changes to the hardware or maps to test. The database contains many thousands of entires of which 2, located within a few 10s of feet of each other, don't work for no apparent reason. Hardly a reason to harp on as if we are covering something up or not taking any responsibility. Whilst your feedback is appreciated so far you haven't offered anything of use other than that the problem exists and you think it is the database at fault. Not sure why you think Garmin are so blameless. The particular model i use once had a problem where it would switch off under certain conditions and it seemed to be linked to having 3rd party POIs (Such as the database) loaded. However the problem was introduced with one firmware release and fixed with another so the problem was all caused by Garmin in that case. There have been other cases where maps have done funny things because of errors in the maps.
| Quote: | | In my humble opinion the speed camera that is on the west carriage way of the ansty rd is too far away to interfere with the red light camera which is pointing east on the eastern side of the carriage way ? |
No-one said anything about anything interfering with anything. |
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banjo12
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Joined: Jul 28, 2006
Posts: 111
Location: Midlands
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| PaulB2005 wrote: | | Quote: | | I don't have the knowledge to make a judgement but why have 2 sets of files ie Garmin and Tom Tom if they are not tweaked to overcome these "problems" |
Not really sure what your point is here.
First of all there are dozens of files not just Garmin and TomTom. Look down the table on this page and you'll see how many file formats there are.
Secondly you are the first person (out of thousands of subscribers) to have mentioned the problem and we're looking at it. However as you can see the problem isn't simple and straight forward. The database entry is correctly formatted and consistent with other entries. It's entirely possible that there is a problem with the Nuvi or the maps that causes this problem, however as we are not Garmin we don't have the luxury of being able to make adjustments or changes to the hardware or maps to test. The database contains many thousands of entires of which 2, located within a few 10s of feet of each other, don't work for no apparent reason. Hardly a reason to harp on as if we are covering something up or not taking any responsibility. Whilst your feedback is appreciated so far you haven't offered anything of use other than that the problem exists and you think it is the database at fault. Not sure why you think Garmin are so blameless. The particular model i use once had a problem where it would switch off under certain conditions and it seemed to be linked to having 3rd party POIs (Such as the database) loaded. However the problem was introduced with one firmware release and fixed with another so the problem was all caused by Garmin in that case. There have been other cases where maps have done funny things because of errors in the maps.
| Quote: | | In my humble opinion the speed camera that is on the west carriage way of the ansty rd is too far away to interfere with the red light camera which is pointing east on the eastern side of the carriage way ? |
No-one said anything about anything interfering with anything. |
You are taking this very personally, I have not harped on about anything and because someone brings a problem caused by goodness knows what to your attention then it is my bad and yes you did say that the red light camera and the close proximity to speed cameras was probably the problem or it is Garmins fault,. be consistent if nothing else |
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PaulB2005
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Joined: Jan 04, 2006
Posts: 9323
Location: Durham, UK
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | you did say that the red light camera and the close proximity to speed cameras was probably the problem |
You're right. I misunderstood what you meant by "interfering"  Sorry. |
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PaulB2005
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Joined: Jan 04, 2006
Posts: 9323
Location: Durham, UK
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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Scrap that last answer. I've been trying so many things to solve this I'm forgetting the context I've said them in.
| Quote: | | you did say that the red light camera and the close proximity to speed cameras was probably the problem or it is Garmins fault |
Yes i did say that but I believe it's Garmins handling of their proximity that's the problem and not the data in the database that is the problem. |
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Andy_P
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Joined: Jun 04, 2005
Posts: 19991
Location: West and Southwest London
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sorry, banjo12, but you are the one who seems to have been taking it personally, or at least that is how it is coming across.
I'm sure the team at PGPSW (I'm fairly close to them but I'm not one of them) are very grateful to you for pointing out the issue; and I would have thought that their concern to try to get to the bottom of it should be clear from their answers.
If that is coming across to you as in some way blaming you for it, then that's regrettable and I can even apologise on their behalf if necessary, but that's *not* how it's coming across to me!
The problem *is* entirely down to how the Nuvi is dealing with the information, and as everyone has been at pains to explain, it's the first time this has cropped up. However, the the data is correct, and we have no easy way of altering how the Nuvi handles what it is it is given.
Remember, the camera database is NOT software. It is only a collection of points on the map, with descriptive names. The Nuvi itself makes ALL the decisions about what to do with those points.
Similarly, the voice warnings are nothing clever. They just replace the STANDARD BUILT-IN noises the Nuvi would make anyway, so if they are wrong, what can PGPSW do about it?
(other than research it and pass the information onto Garmin in the hope they will correct the problem). |
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PaulB2005
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Joined: Jan 04, 2006
Posts: 9323
Location: Durham, UK
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:12 am Post subject: |
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Right. After messing with various downloads and changing settings etc it appears the default database loaded with POILoader works like this for RedLight Cameras.
If you are below the trigger speed you get a one off grey alert stating xx mph Speed Alert Zone with a single alert tone. This is the Approach Warning.
If you are above the speed limit you get a one off red alert stating xx mph Speed Alert. Followed by a faster bong if you stay over the limit. This is the Overspeed Warning.
Testing other RedLight cameras results in the above scenario.
However testing cameras 9370 and 11992 gives some weird results.
I wanted to test the Overspeed Alert so i lowered the trigger speed for 9370 to 32 mph and raised 11992 to 72 mph. I also only loaded the RedLight Camera file from the Consolidated Database.
Doing a run across the junction East to West results in a "Speed Alert:32 mph" banner but, despite being 8 mph over the speed limit, NO Overspeed Alert.
Doing a run across the junction West to East results in a "Speed Alert:32 mph" banner with an Overspeed Warning, even through that camera is on the wrong carriageway. That should not happen as this is the wrong camera. A grey alert does flash up very briefly for the 72 mph camera as we are under the speed limit and we go directly past it.
It looks like, for some reason, you have to be over the speed limit to trigger the alerts for these particular cameras, but I'm not sure why. It's going to take some more testing tomorrow to work whats going on.
It could be the placement of the cameras, however as they are directly, smack bang in the middle of the lanes they cover there should be no problem.
The data in the database is formatted correctly and the way the data is loaded in the Nuvi is OK.
So, partially as a reminder to myself, I'll try adding RedLight, GATSO and other cameras tomorrow and see what else happens. I'll also try moving the cameras to see what happens.
Whatever it is it looks "unique" to that junction (so far!!!) |
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banjo12
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Posts: 111
Location: Midlands
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:47 am Post subject: |
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The only way out of this is handbags at ten paces  I am very grateful for the efforts that you are going to I would like to offer a plan of action, would it help if you removed all other warning devices from that junction see if that works OK, if it does re-introduce each other element one at a time till you find the culprits, oh and does this reply come under the heading of harping on
Regards
Les |
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PaulB2005
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Joined: Jan 04, 2006
Posts: 9323
Location: Durham, UK
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | would it help if you removed all other warning devices from that junction see if that works OK, |
Way ahead of you there.....  |
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PaulB2005
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Joined: Jan 04, 2006
Posts: 9323
Location: Durham, UK
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| banjo12 - do you have any problems with any other RedLight cameras? |
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banjo12
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Posts: 111
Location: Midlands
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| PaulB2005 wrote: | | banjo12 - do you have any problems with any other RedLight cameras? |
No, I have been warned verbally about red light cameras that I had forgotten about. |
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PaulB2005
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Joined: Jan 04, 2006
Posts: 9323
Location: Durham, UK
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Can you post the camera numbers OR their locations? |
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