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REVIEW COMMENTS: TomTom Navigator 3
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alix776
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dave ive quite a bit of memory free as i only really use 2210 as a nav tool i think ive sort my bt version but it will take next week to sort it ive posted what iver done on the tomtom forum have got a wellingborough tomorrow and swindon on monday so ill see how it gets on withit
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PeteB
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:41 pm    Post subject: Tom Tom? Good Reputation?? Reply with quote

I wasn't aware Tom Tom HAD a good reputation to lose.

In my humble opinion, they should have issued a free upgrade to TTN2 users with reasonably accurate maps and way points LONG BEFORE they EVER though of creating a new release.

I bought TTN2 (UK maps and software only) last September to replace Co-Pilot that came with a Compaq iPAQ Navigation System kit that I'd bought 18 months earlier. Although the TTN2 software was fairly reliable and more user-friendly (in most respects) than the much older Co-pilot, it had three major deficiencies:

1 no way points (it never occurred to me that ANY routing packages still existed without these, never mind one of the most expensive ones)

2 ridiculously out of date maps, compete with numerous instruction errors (e.g. go wrong way round roundabout, the turn left/left/right/left repeated every few yards on a motorway or main road with no turnings in sight, or turn into one-way streets). I found more of these in a month with TTN2 that in 18 months with Co-Pilot - after the first week I just gave up documenting them

3 crashes when memory is too low, instead of closing gracefully with a meaningful error message (as an IT professional, I can tell you programmers are taught that one on their very first day of training)

One of the very reasons I upgraded was to get newer maps. I really wanted Smart St Pro (which for only slightly more included European maps) but NavMan had stopped selling it

As this was the most expensive single software product I have ever bought for my personal use with my own money (e.g. I can get a very comprehensive DVD package with MS Word, a spreadsheet, database, Autoroute Europe, Money, Encyclopaedia and much more for well under 100 from Microsoft. I HAD expected that within a month or two of my buying it (remember, it had been on sale for several months when I bought it) there would be a free upgrade.

Most of the software industry has been trying to shake off the reputation for issuing poor quality products so that customers have to buy another release to get improvements.

I won't be making any more charitable donations to Tom Tom, unless they publish a demo version that I can test out free before committing.
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AlanW
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've now been using TTN3 for just over the week including a couple of 40m each-way trips into sussex. So far their has only been one failure, where my position stopped being updated. TTN3 was otherwise running. Exiting and restarting TTN3 had no effect, so I believe that the BT stack had crashed (can't really blame TomTom for that).

I have found a few mapping errors - a couple of missing roundabouts & more annoyingly a junction with incorrect modelling of the the route of the primary right of way. TomTom's graphics (but not the speech cues) also amusingly insists that I go a full 360 degrees round a roundabout at work, before choosing an exit.

My System is a 2210 flash upgraded to BIOS 1.1 and then TomTom 3.00 and 3.01 patch installed immediately afterwards. My maps (GB & MRE) are on a standard Lexar (Taiwan) SD card. My BT GPS sits on the dashboard about 1 foot away from my iPAQ which is in the TomTom cradle. I am not running any third party software which integrates with TomTom. I also use iTask to close down all other applications before using TomTom, so as to give it plenty of memory to work in.

So, the software definitely CAN work, the issue is why it sometimes doesn't. I reckon that the most likely cause may be lack of memory, which can be caused by having too many other apps running at once. Other possibilities are dodgy SD cards causing map read failures, or poor compatibility with third party integrated applications.

Alan 8)
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NMatthew
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the information, I have a couple of questions:

Are you using the TomTom BT GPS?
Did you try TTN3 with the original 2210 ROM?
Did you run TTN2 prior to TTN3?

(OK, so that's three questions)

The reason I ask is that I have run a 2210 and TTN2 with TT BT GPS without any freezings for months now, after I settled on the right way to start up and exit (GPS on, 2210 on, wait for BT start, start TTN, exit TTN, 2210 off, GPS off), maps on CF (not SD), TTN in RAM, CheckPOInt left running throughout.

I am concerned that something in the combination of the new 2210 rom and TTN3 will make the whole lot less stable, so your experiences provide valuable information.

Neil
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trafcam
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave wrote:
trafcam wrote:
I also have a Garmin iQue here (had it since January), and that has the M6 Toll road on it. According to their web site, the iQue also uses Navteq (or Navtech when it was released) map data, so I'm surprised this isn't in the TomTom data set.


Mike (Trafcam), can you confirm which version of City Select you're running ? I don't have V6 but I asked someone to confirm V6 and they said it didn't have the M6 Toll Road on it.


Yes, it says V6 on the CD packaging. I forgot to check this before I powered the machine down last night, so I can't say if there's a revision number that appears on the screen to give any more detail. I'll try to remember to look later on. Toll Road is certainly there, though.
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Skippy
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave wrote:
Mike (Trafcam), can you confirm which version of City Select you're running ? I don't have V6 but I asked someone to confirm V6 and they said it didn't have the M6 Toll Road on it.


I don't have City Select v6 but it does have the toll road on there, you can see it on Garmin's website: http://www.garmin.com/cartography/

The only thing is that it is not marked as a motorway, just a minor road so you have to zoom in to 0.2 mile scale to see the M6 Toll road appear. Find the M42 junction 9 on Garmin's Map viewer and zoom in on it - eventually the toll road appears at 0.2 scale.

Mike - can you confirm that the iQue treats the new road as a motorway and favours it correctly when routing (including the "avoid toll roads" option).

I have seen this done in Dublin on the M50 extension too. This was on my GPS maps (City Select v4) for a couple of years before it was completed but only it's only shown as a minor road, not a motorway.

Garmin uses Navtech (now known as NAVTEQ) data.

I think people are right to demand up-to-date maps with their GPS mapping products. We pay enough money for them so we should be able to expect to get good quality data. We should keep hounding the likes of TomTom - these people are the ones who will go back to TeleAtlas or NAVTEQ to demand more up-to-date data. If we just put up with inaccurate maps then nothing will be done.

I think we should also be offered subscription based map updates (lets say free for the first year) with these mapping products. The actual differences in the 6 monthly map updates must be pretty small, you could easily distribute them online.
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BigH
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave,

as always a thorough and excellent review. One observation about the MRE facility, as a regular traveller in Europe I don't have a major issue with the MR as such, the big problem is once you enter a city or town. I guess at this point TT3 ceases to help unless of course you switch maps and re-route. If this is the case I fail to recognise the usefulness of this facility in real life. As regards carrying lots of memory to accomodate maps, the cost of CF and SD memory continues to fall and is not a major issue, 512MB is more than adequate to carry much of northern europe. It seems the boys at TT are still ignoring the plees of serious cross border travellers!!

Looks like I will be sticking with CP4 for the time being!

Regards,
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AlanW
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NMatthew wrote:
Thanks for the information, I have a couple of questions:

Are you using the TomTom BT GPS? Yes
Did you try TTN3 with the original 2210 ROM? No
Did you run TTN2 prior to TTN3? No

(OK, so that's three questions)

The reason I ask is that I have run a 2210 and TTN2 with TT BT GPS without any freezings for months now, after I settled on the right way to start up and exit (GPS on, 2210 on, wait for BT start, start TTN, exit TTN, 2210 off, GPS off), maps on CF (not SD), TTN in RAM, CheckPOInt left running throughout. Same here, except use SD Card

I am concerned that something in the combination of the new 2210 rom and TTN3 will make the whole lot less stable, so your experiences provide valuable information.

Neil


Yes to everything (see above) except for the CF. Having said that I am on my second SD card, as my first was soooo sloooow.

I think you have a point on the power up/down sequence. I have sometimes failed to get tomtom to reconnect to the bt gps, if I just switch the iPAQ off without exiting. However, it is also possible that there is a 'memory leak' in the tomtom software & exiting and restarting occassionally might free any 'lost' space - Just a thought.

Alan Thumbs Up
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davids
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:22 am    Post subject: TTN3 Review Reply with quote

Super review!

I am a complete newbie to both GPS and PDA. I purchased a Dell Axim x5 together with wired Rikaline satellite receiver and TomTom3. That's a lot for a newbie to get his head around.

TT could do with some more comprehensive guidance on set up. Whole thing took a few days to get going. When setting up you have to make sure that the wired receiver is selected and recieve all beams is checked. I know that does not make any sense but it makes all the difference. Prior to that I got a "GPS Disabled" message.

The Rikaline receiver needs about an hour to download all the basic satellite data before it will supply a reliable fix. Until then you get a "GPS Unreliable" message.

I experienced a couple of freezes and did a couple of soft resets and then bingo, the whole thing came together and started working. I used a 128mb SD Card for the UK map which took up 121mb. Again TT should make this clear, or perhaps I should have done more homework and purchased a larger capacity card. Anyway, this is a very clever application.

davids
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sland
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sorted freezes by flashing HP2210 with latest flash rom from HP site then NOT installing the bluetooth updaet because the flash rom has it installed. It has cured all BT/TTN3 lockups totally.

I still get the odd iPAQ lockup but that seems to be since I installed a 2.2Gb CF Microdrive.
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marshall
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:57 pm    Post subject: 2.2gb microdrive Reply with quote

hi sland
I read your post with interest,
re 2.2 gb cf microdrive what brand are you using and how well is it working?

I have been considering the magistore, I think thats the spelling,
But i have heard some bad reports .

I am running a 2210 and 1gb microdrive without any problems but!!!!!!!

does the 2.2 work as well as the 1gb
can you recommend a site to purchase from with good service and price

Regards

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AlanW
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, after having no-lockups, it's now happened to me. Twice, on the M25 coming back from Kent. In both instances, the display changed from miles-to-next-intersection to miles-per-hour, without my intervention and stopped updating. Clicking on the screen allows navigation of the menus as per normal; just no position updates.

Selecting the GPS Status icon, results in the communication 'dots' animation between the BT GPS and PPC, animating once and then stopping. The position and satellite statius does not update. When I got home I tabbed to the GPS tab and unticked then reticked the box next to the com port list. Suddenly everything burst back to life.

I did switch off the PPC earlier in the day without shutting down Tom Tom and I also failed to close down Inbox and Notes before using the Navigator. Usually I make sure everything non-essential is shut down. It will be interesting to see if reliability is restored if I soft reset and return to shutting things down carefully.

Alan Confused
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NMatthew
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As reported elsewhere, the TomTom website now confirms a problem with the 2210 and TTN 3.01. Let's hope 3.02 isn't too long in arriving!

Neil
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Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 11:05 pm    Post subject: Re: TTN3 Review Reply with quote

davids wrote:
Super review!

Thanks!

davids wrote:
The Rikaline receiver needs about an hour to download all the basic satellite data before it will supply a reliable fix. Until then you get a "GPS Unreliable" message.

You shouldn't need to wait this long, there's something definately wrong here. The most you should have to wait is around 15 mins if stationary. If you are driving then it will take a lot longer for the initial fix, but still shouldn't really take as long as an hour.

marshall wrote:
I have been considering the magistore, I think thats the spelling, But i have heard some bad reports .

I am running a 2.2GB MagicStor in each of my iPAQ 2210's and they run just as well as the IBM 1GB MicroDrives I've had before them. I purchased mine from www.scan.co.uk
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KevinL
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Joined: Mar 17, 2004
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Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:16 am    Post subject: Itinerary Planner Reply with quote

I noticed in the review that you can save an Itinerary. Can you save more than one at a time? I would like to plan the routes for my holiday in advance and save each day's itinerary.

Thanks,

Kevin Lutz
Chicago, IL, USA
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