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Good to see a topic full of half-ar$ed comments with no intelligent discussion.
Thats a fairly narrow-minded interpretation of this discussion. If you think for more than a micro second about it, most of the comments, although said in jest, contain some very insiteful ideas related to the topic. These ideas require serious consideration when the furture of the automobile is being considered. The controls we use came out of the Austin 7 (Which I think got it's layout from a earlier car). Virtually everything that has been discussed has been demonstrated at research institutions all over the world.
Is it not a good time to review the way we interact with and control our motor vechiles? Given the current state of research I feel it is the correct time for debating what it is we want our cars to do, and not do, for us.
Or we call all just shut up and let some politicians decide for us.
It was nice to have you on board, good wishs for your future.
I could mention your spelling, grammar, inconsistencies, attempts at substantiating your ill-conceived statements by mentioning 'research institutions' (of which you, obviously, have intimate knowledge), watching Top Gear for Austin 7 comments et al but I won't.
I have never been 'on-board' but am now bored. As I mentioned earlier I do know what I am talking about regarding the possibilities of this being introduced as I work, and am appropriately qualified, in the area of Safety Critical Systems. Indeed, I present lectures on this. Whilst the topic merits discussion that's all it merits. Unless you are ardent believer in Daily Mail type headlines.
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14907 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 9:47 pm Post subject:
mcwarre wrote:
As I mentioned earlier I do know what I am talking about regarding the possibilities of this being introduced as I work, and am appropriately qualified, in the area of Safety Critical Systems. Indeed, I present lectures on this.
Yes, you did indeed mention earlier
Quote:
BTW I have a Masters Degree in Safety Critical Systems Engineering and have worked with safety critical systems for over 4 years. Will they get a safety certificate for automatic control of top speed? Not. A. Chance. Ever.
Alas, I don't have a Masters Degree in anything. So it's easy for me to understand that it's Eddie Stobart's magic, not engineering, which automatically controls that nasty gurt lorry from going faster than what it orter. That Bernie Eccleston's magic, not engineering, is what automatically controls those whizzy F1 cars from going faster than what they orter in the pit lane. I'm having difficulty with whose magic, not engineering, it was which automatically controlled that naughty man's Subaru's top speed and got him off the speeding ticket - but it'll come to me in time, I'm sure.
When I said earlier "We shall miss you", I obviously was referring to our imminent sad deprivation of the benefit of your Masters Degree in Safety Critical Systems Engineering. Our loss is some other forum's gain. _________________ Dennis
I am so sorry, my spleeling nd gmmer ar sso bed that due thunk i ama idiot. It's a shame that you have to get so personal up there on your Ivory tower. How would you like us to adress you - God, Your Highness, Sir.
You did not say where you lecture or who gave you your degree, or who you work for, am I suppose to take those statements at face value when you won't take mine? You have assumed that all of that impresses me, and that you have superior degrees and skills than me, without any supporting evidence.
I could privide a list and cross reference every statement I make, such as is required by Science Journals and Papers and yourself. But you know what - I can't be fagged and it's not needed for this forum.
Back to topic.
The main reason this won't happen is political. We all hate it. Despite any advantages it would have (assuming the technical and safety issues were resolved and it had advantages) - no elected official would ever support this.
So at the time that this idea came to affect our everyday life, we will be under the control of a dictator, so this would be the least of out worries.
Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:43 am Post subject: GPS enforced speed limits
I was overtaking a large lorry today and was two thirds past it on a long straight road with nothing coming the other way, when a car just pulled out from an unmarked farm track onto my side of the road. If I had braked and tried to pull back in behind the lorry I would not have made it, but I planted my foot on the gas and just made it. If the GPS limited me to 60mph there would have been an accident. No system can be aware of any eventualities that you may face and the sudden need for rapid acceleration which for a brief period would take you over the limit but will avoid an accident.
Every day we drive all of us constantly face situations we have never encountered whether you have just started driving or been driving like me for 42 years. In my job I drive on average 120-180 miles a day and see so many near misses. GPS for some seems to be the cure-all and like so many ideas, is never thought through or those in power don't listen to the experts.
Dave[/b]
Can I make a few points where we seem to be confused about statistics?
1)There are of course instances where exceeding the speed limit avoids a collision. But the issue is whether imposed speed limits will reduce the total number of collisions. If 100 acidents are avoided which would otherwise happen but 10 happen that could have been avoided - then it has still been worthwhile - 90 there has been a reductiopn of 90.
2) The claim is that speed does not make accidents - well no of course not - but what it does is make them both more likely and more serious.
3) If the government really felt this was politically acceptable, they could easily impose a rule that said no new car should be capable of doing more than 70. There would be no need for GPS in every car to enable this. There is already a law saying no electric bike should be capable of being powered to more than 16mph. Of course there would be problems with people disableing this, but this could be overcome.
4) It is unlikely that any political party would ever feel it could inpose a law like this and survive in office, so its not likely to happen.
I was overtaking a large lorry today and was two thirds .......
I know exactly what you mean, however your very real scenario is covered by this technology - the kickdown override would get you out of this situation. Not all cars have a "kickdown" switch (manuals), but one that identifies full throttle is easy and effective.
Just like the argument Guns don't kill people, people kill people - Speed does not kill people, It's the people who can't drive that kill people.
Maybe we need the SDA (Speed Drivers Association) to lobby aginst this kind of encroachment on our rights.
As I mentioned earlier I do know what I am talking about regarding the possibilities of this being introduced as I work, and am appropriately qualified, in the area of Safety Critical Systems. Indeed, I present lectures on this.
Yes, you did indeed mention earlier
Quote:
BTW I have a Masters Degree in Safety Critical Systems Engineering and have worked with safety critical systems for over 4 years. Will they get a safety certificate for automatic control of top speed? Not. A. Chance. Ever.
Alas, I don't have a Masters Degree in anything. So it's easy for me to understand that it's Eddie Stobart's magic, not engineering, which automatically controls that nasty gurt lorry from going faster than what it orter. That Bernie Eccleston's magic, not engineering, is what automatically controls those whizzy F1 cars from going faster than what they orter in the pit lane. I'm having difficulty with whose magic, not engineering, it was which automatically controlled that naughty man's Subaru's top speed and got him off the speeding ticket - but it'll come to me in time, I'm sure.
When I said earlier "We shall miss you", I obviously was referring to our imminent sad deprivation of the benefit of your Masters Degree in Safety Critical Systems Engineering. Our loss is some other forum's gain.
If you read what I had written rather than what you think I had then you would have understood.
I said I have worked with safety critical systems for over 4 years. I didn't say that I worked with safety critical systems engineering for over 4 years. Safety critical systems are, typically, made up of three main inputs; people, processes and technology. The driver is the people element; the rules of the road and processes used to control / react in a vehicle are the processes and the technologies are obviously the engineering bits. Typically, the first two are the most important from a safety perspective. As a White Van Man I am sure that you would agree??
So your emphasis on attempting to dismiss my view by constantly belittling engineering is quite unfounded.
I only mentioned that I have a degree such as to emphasise that my point of view was based in fact and experience which, when combined, I would argue make me competent in the area. Competencies may be gained solely through experience; it is not necessary to be qualified in a particular field (ask Sir Richard Branson). I did not, nor never would, belittle someone who doesn't have a degree.
I have been following this thread as i thought the topic was interesting, although not being involved in the discussion, it has certainly taken big strides into personal attacks well off the topic.
Sorry to go OT again, but having read your post BEFORE you edited it, you should certainly be embarrassed, the comment (thankfully altered) was extremely personal to a member never mind a moderator.
Educated you might be, but your social skills are nought out of ten. _________________ TomTom Go 60
Garmin Nüvi 660, Firmware v4.90
Drive-Smart GPS with Loader v1.4.16
HTC Advantage X7500 MS 6.1 Tchart Speed Sentry
Satmap Active 10, Software v1.16
Fuzion 32 HUD Bluetooth GPS receiver
Educated you might be, but your social skills are nought out of ten.
Gee thanks for that - are you editing this to make sure it isn't extremely personal or are you just going to be hypocritical???
I have no need to edit, you seem to be doing quite well by yourself. _________________ TomTom Go 60
Garmin Nüvi 660, Firmware v4.90
Drive-Smart GPS with Loader v1.4.16
HTC Advantage X7500 MS 6.1 Tchart Speed Sentry
Satmap Active 10, Software v1.16
Fuzion 32 HUD Bluetooth GPS receiver
BIG BROTHER is getting in by the backdoor, unfortunately we know he is there and we are letting him in!
Who behaves on the road has nothing to fear. Speed limiter? Welcome! You don't just get up in the morning and decide to have an accident... it just happens without warning. You can go fast every day of your life and not have an accident; in many occasions it does happen ONCE in a lifetime. These measures are NOT designed to "punish" everyone on the road, but to put under control the occasional idiot that WILL kill your kid that innocently crosses the road going to school. What about the drug addict that simply cannot control himself? Or someone who had a bit too much to drink? I'll be just very glad those people will not be physically able to go over the speed limit.
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So it's easy for me to understand that it's Eddie Stobart's magic, not engineering, which automatically controls that nasty gurt lorry from going faster than what it orter. That Bernie Eccleston's magic, not engineering, is what automatically controls those whizzy F1 cars from going faster than what they orter in the pit lane. I'm having difficulty with whose magic, not engineering, it was which automatically controlled that naughty man's Subaru's top speed and got him off the speeding ticket - but it'll come to me in time, I'm sure.
