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Navigon 8110 released
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DaveMatthews
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonandmarkuk wrote:
They seem to be fairing well in the USA now.

"CHICAGO, April 23, 2008 — NAVIGON Inc. claimed the number four position in the personal navigation category


Yes but if Navigon see themselves as being a major player in SatNav, they have few direct rivals (TT, Garmin, Mio/NavMan), so it's like saying "Hey I'm fourth... in a four-horse race". Wink

Besides which, that press statement is ambiguous - does the word "claimed" mean "acquired"/"attained"/"captured" or does it simply mean that Navigon themselves have generated these figures - if the latter, then there needs to be independent verification of this. As I said, though, I hope Navigon are indeed on the up-and-up.

--

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Dave
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jonandmarkuk
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't say I really care about if Navigon are making there own claims about America. Twisted Evil

All I can say is how happy I am with my purchase.

If anyone is interested I have loaded some new vids and pics onto the website listed earlier in the forum.

I made a mistake in the selecting of the route as having the camera in front of the GPS I didn't notice that Birmingham International Airport was still selected from when I tried the route before.
Also I accidentally caught the button on the camera so the video is in two parts.
Sound may sound muffled as the unit is on the sofa.

Videos could take a while to show on the site as they are processed after uploading.
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EddyDC
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is true that Navigon doesn't get any good reviews in the US with the 7100. I guess they have the same problem as Garmin does in EU: they don't understand anything about the traffic situation of the other side of the ocean. I've had many Garmins and I had that experience.
The reason why Navigon doesn't get that much coverage is that:
a) TomTom is a main dominator
b) TT has good PR and the press will always write good about them, despite the numerous problems they have (TMC to name a major one).

A question. How's the day and night switch works (with a sensor or hour based like viaMichelin)?

Btw www.nav-user.com isn't in Dutch (which I speak), but Danish :-)

jonandmarkuk wrote:
I agree about the mapping detail and the lack of reviews.

However the Navigon 8110's have only just come out and I have read that there is no more stock available until 15th May at the earliest.

Foreign language video demo's have started to appear on Youtube and there is a review on www.nav-user.com but it's all in Dutch Sad Only thing I noted at the bottom of the review was it appeared to score very highly.
You can post questions on that forum as the mod seems to know English very well.

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jonandmarkuk
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EddyDC wrote:
It is true that Navigon doesn't get any good reviews in the US with the 7100. I guess they have the same problem as Garmin does in EU: they don't understand anything about the traffic situation of the other side of the ocean. I've had many Garmins and I had that experience.
The reason why Navigon doesn't get that much coverage is that:
a) TomTom is a main dominator
b) TT has good PR and the press will always write good about them, despite the numerous problems they have (TMC to name a major one).

A question. How's the day and night switch works (with a sensor or hour based like viaMichelin)?

Btw www.nav-user.com isn't in Dutch (which I speak), but Danish :-)

jonandmarkuk wrote:
I agree about the mapping detail and the lack of reviews.

However the Navigon 8110's have only just come out and I have read that there is no more stock available until 15th May at the earliest.

Foreign language video demo's have started to appear on Youtube and there is a review on www.nav-user.com but it's all in Dutch Sad Only thing I noted at the bottom of the review was it appeared to score very highly.
You can post questions on that forum as the mod seems to know English very well.



Laughing Out Loud.... I found tried a language guess tool on the net and sometimes it says it's Dutch another time Norweigen. Cheers I may try again and see if it will translate correctly. Embarassed

I think the day / night mode changes by time, but at now point in the setup do you tell the until what time it is. It seems to sync the time to the Sat's.
I may have to try it this evening and see at what point it changes over. I know the Michelin always had an issue of the clock changing itself to some random time when connected to the PC rendering the auto day / night usless. But if the time is always in sync with the sattelites then it could work a little better.
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EddyDC
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonandmarkuk wrote:


I think the day / night mode changes by time, but at now point in the setup do you tell the until what time it is. It seems to sync the time to the Sat's.
I may have to try it this evening and see at what point it changes over. I know the Michelin always had an issue of the clock changing itself to some random time when connected to the PC rendering the auto day / night usless. But if the time is always in sync with the sattelites then it could work a little better.


Strange that it isn't in a sensor (like Garmin does). In spring and autumn, dusk and dawn changes each day or week in BE :-(
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jonandmarkuk
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe it is a sensor? really have no idea. Have not seen any mention of how it knows when to change.
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chris_ah1
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The big question is whether you have been able to get the speed cameras from here on the device yet??

I've been trying to find a detailed MN7 manual but I can't find one. I am really curious to find out what the options are in the settings menus - what you can configure.

I don't suppose you could make a vid of 1 Tite street SW3 to Goodge Street in London? This is a curious route that can really test a GPS for London. I wouldn't mind seeing a mix of 2d and 3d and the other views along with street names. This has auto-zoom doesn't it?

Also, how does it look/behave in normal driving mode (without a route)?

Lastly, the only real questions are whether the speakers are loud enough in the car and whether you can read the boxes clearly in-car? One thing I love about the garmin screen is it's legibility even from 10feet away in the next car over :D

Oh almost forgot - how is the bluetooth part of it? Mic ok? Sound levels ok? Any issues? No external mic i think.

Funny thing is I told my Dad that this thing had the zagat guide and the first thing he said was - get it! Laughing Out Loud.

I know it's a lot to ask but I really stress when i can't test a device out beforehand. I just hate buying crummy bits of plastic again and again. Thanks.

Good gallery so far too. Weird redraw though when you put in the new waypoint.

Just as a comment, this device will be fast - even the 2110 with smaller processor and memory can scroll around the 'browse map' well and fluidly. This device also appears to have little POI lag unlike garmin units. And useful POIs unlike TT.

Also, regarding the 7110 it was highly regarding in the PDA essentials mag which reviews a lot of these devices. So not all was doom and gloom. Have you seen any routing quirks?
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jonandmarkuk
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The big question is whether you have been able to get the speed cameras from here on the device yet??

- Not yet, still waiting on a version of POI Warner which works with v7

I've been trying to find a detailed MN7 manual but I can't find one. I am really curious to find out what the options are in the settings menus - what you can configure.

- Do you mean the route settings or the device itself, there are so many different options it's hard to list them all. For example under the 'route profile' you can set vehicle type, routing options like motorways / toll roads can be set as Allow, Forbid or avoid. I assume the avoid one means it will always attempt to route without using a Motorway, but forbid will not allow motorways at all. I like this option as the Michelin seemed to love motorways a little too much and once took me miles out my way to join the motorway to get from Derby to Ilkeston.


I don't suppose you could make a vid of 1 Tite street SW3 to Goodge Street in London? This is a curious route that can really test a GPS for London. I wouldn't mind seeing a mix of 2d and 3d and the other views along with street names. This has auto-zoom doesn't it?

- Will try to do this tonight, I need to figure out if I can compress the videos for upload as they are huge (although the website recompresses them it doesn't help with the upload).


Also, how does it look/behave in normal driving mode (without a route)?

- Just shows the map location, not sure if it warns of speed cameras as didn't pass one on my route. I think it still shows the road speed and gives a warning if it thinks your going too fast.

Lastly, the only real questions are whether the speakers are loud enough in the car and whether you can read the boxes clearly in-car? One thing I love about the garmin screen is it's legibility even from 10feet away in the next car over :D

- Very impressed with how loud the unit is. And if you want it louder still you can use the FM to pipe it through to the car stereo.

Screen - Very clear, I have no problems seeing the text and placed in the middle of the car my other half can see the screen easily too (handy if I can't really look)

Oh almost forgot - how is the bluetooth part of it? Mic ok? Sound levels ok? Any issues? No external mic i think.

- Used the handsfree the other day and once again, perfect with my Sony Ericsson w910i. I could hear my dad fine and he could hear me.

Funny thing is I told my Dad that this thing had the zagat guide and the first thing he said was - get it! .

- Beware I think the Zagat guide is only on the USA models (Amazon UK have pasted the wrong info for the 7110 which says it does have it). When I looked the Zagat website only mentioned US information?

I know it's a lot to ask but I really stress when i can't test a device out beforehand. I just hate buying crummy bits of plastic again and again. Thanks.

- I know the feeling, this unit looks and feels expensive. The brushed metal really does look the part and the device has some weight too it without being too heavy.

Good gallery so far too. Weird redraw though when you put in the new waypoint.

- Think that was caused by the recalulation taking place in the background. I do like the POI on route option as it really helps with giving an idea how far places are way.

You also get the same style view for TMC info, will have to try and get some pics of the TMC.


Just as a comment, this device will be fast - even the 2110 with smaller processor and memory can scroll around the 'browse map' well and fluidly. This device also appears to have little POI lag unlike garmin units. And useful POIs unlike TT.

- I really love the fact the POI are specfic to the brand. As you are driving you will see car dealer icons and the famous McDonalds symbol.

Also, regarding the 7110 it was highly regarding in the PDA essentials mag which reviews a lot of these devices. So not all was doom and gloom. Have you seen any routing quirks?

- None seen, I know the routing quirks were something which only effected the USA models. As has been said before. Most people buy items and if they love them never say, but if they buy something they hate they will tell the world so you never get a true balance.
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jonandmarkuk
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris_ah1 wrote:

I don't suppose you could make a vid of 1 Tite street SW3 to Goodge Street in London? This is a curious route that can really test a GPS for London. I wouldn't mind seeing a mix of 2d and 3d and the other views along with street names. This has auto-zoom doesn't it?



Have done a video, wasn't able to video all of the route as the camera memory card was filling up fast. So I showed the different 2D and 2 3D views along with the turn by turn list.
This route was done using the default 'optimum' route settings.

Video is now uploaded

Hope it's of some use.
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chris_ah1
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonandmarkuk wrote:
chris_ah1 wrote:

I don't suppose you could make a vid of 1 Tite street SW3 to Goodge Street in London? This is a curious route that can really test a GPS for London. I wouldn't mind seeing a mix of 2d and 3d and the other views along with street names. This has auto-zoom doesn't it?



Have done a video, wasn't able to video all of the route as the camera memory card was filling up fast. So I showed the different 2D and 2 3D views along with the turn by turn list.
This route was done using the default 'optimum' route settings.

Video is now uploaded

Hope it's of some use.


So many thanks from me!!! Had a play with a 730T today. Was very impressed with that too in general....until I tried bluetooth XD
I'm going to post a detailed review on the tomtom forum but basically it is still this vs nuvi for me Laughing Out Loud.

Just watched the vid - very impressed. first comment - IQ routes selected same route as navigon. However, as a Londoner it is one you should never take. Finding a) IQ routes is useless. IQ routes CANNOT fail on picadilly. It's just so incredibly busy.

Good news - once you block Picadilly from route on tomtom (and I'm sure on navigon too) it will take you through grosvenor square (US embassy). The Tomtom was updated for the layout there, so was navteq data given closures.

Finding b) 2D view rocks!!! Have to say I'm a diehard 2d person. The labels were great, the legibility was great. The street labels on there were ok in 3D, but compared to nuvi and tomtom woeful sadly. Admittedly it only shows road names that you can turn into and roads further beyond that you might be heading towards which is positive. In fact, I much prefer the 3D layout of the garmin but 2D better on this. TT just 'ok' for both 3d and 2d.

Finding c) I'm disapointed with lane guidance in eaton square - vets know where the left and right turn sections are - it is the one road where you must weave to go straight reliably (weave - as in left lane, then right, then left then right as left/right turns are allowed alternately).

Finding d) Screen a lot brighter and vivid looking than tomtom. Speakers and instructions nice too.

Finding e) Lots of stuff to configure in the settings pages!!! wooo. Thanks for showing the first 3 of 5 pages. Seriously, that stuff should be in the manual.

Finding f) TT responsive but slight lag after press. that looked nice and fast.

Finding g) As much as i hate to say it, the TT redraws the area better because of a closer default zoom level in 3d. 2d the navigon was blazingly fast.

h) I think you found yourself a keeper John.
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DaveMatthews
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks very much for that latest vid!

One thing that struck me as odd was that when the sim started, names of sidestreets were not being displayed on the 3D view but about halfway through the vid they suddenly appeared!?!

--

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Dave
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chris_ah1
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaveMatthews wrote:
Thanks very much for that latest vid!

One thing that struck me as odd was that when the sim started, names of sidestreets were not being displayed on the 3D view but about halfway through the vid they suddenly appeared!?!

--

Cheers


Dave


yes, I noticed that too. It could be trying to reduce clutter on the screen. Or only writes the names when it finds a straight line. I'm sorry to say but i find the jumping around of street names to be very unnappealing considering I want a nav device more to see where I am and what is around rather than to get from A-B.

Road names seemed to be more static on the TT unit in contrast. Either they showed or didn't in 3d and 2d mode.

I personally don't like the patchiness of detail on the navigon, but could perhaps live with it. Especially since 2D view was awesome.

I certainly can't live with the fact that the TT crashed my mobile with an incoming call and wouldn't play any sound from the onboard speaker either. Sad

Did you investigate the POI warner supplied and whether it allows the speedcams to be added?

Is there anyone else like me who feels that there is simply NO 3D implementation other than perhaps garmin's that is passable?
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jonandmarkuk
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaveMatthews wrote:
Thanks very much for that latest vid!

One thing that struck me as odd was that when the sim started, names of sidestreets were not being displayed on the 3D view but about halfway through the vid they suddenly appeared!?!

--

Cheers


Dave


I think what you maybe referring too is that when I started the route it was in the Panorama View 3D mode which doesn't show the street names, only the towns / areas nearby.
Then during the demo I switch off the view 3d and return to the standard 3d mode which does allow the street names to be shown.

Would that be why it appears the street names only appear later in the vid?

I have to agree with Chris that the 2d mode is really nice looking.

chris_ah1 wrote:


yes, I noticed that too. It could be trying to reduce clutter on the screen. Or only writes the names when it finds a straight line. I'm sorry to say but i find the jumping around of street names to be very unnappealing considering I want a nav device more to see where I am and what is around rather than to get from A-B.


Have to admit I love the Panorama view 3d mode myself, however I do wish that it at least labeled the street I need to turn onto.

chris_ah1 wrote:


Road names seemed to be more static on the TT unit in contrast. Either they showed or didn't in 3d and 2d mode.

I personally don't like the patchiness of detail on the navigon, but could perhaps live with it. Especially since 2D view was awesome.

I certainly can't live with the fact that the TT crashed my mobile with an incoming call and wouldn't play any sound from the onboard speaker either. Sad

Did you investigate the POI warner supplied and whether it allows the speedcams to be added?

Is there anyone else like me who feels that there is simply NO 3D implementation other than perhaps garmin's that is passable?


Streets on the route can also be disabled like the TT, and I wonder if changing the route options would give a different route.
Have to admit I would have expected Lane information for central London, and I wonder if I should contact Navigon or Navteq about that. I have read in the TT forums people are disappointed with the Lane information. The map makers seem to have forgotten that the most complex road layouts and junctions tend to be in a city.

Phone compatibility lists can be found here;

ftp://support:support@ftp1.navigon.com/download/manuals/kompliste/bt8110/nokia.pdf

ftp://support:support@ftp1.navigon.com/download/manuals/kompliste/bt8110/moto.pdf

ftp://support:support@ftp1.navigon.com/download/manuals/kompliste/bt8110/samsung.pdf

ftp://support:support@ftp1.navigon.com/download/manuals/kompliste/bt8110/siemens.pdf

ftp://support:support@ftp1.navigon.com/download/manuals/kompliste/bt8110/sonyericsson.pdf

ftp://support:support@ftp1.navigon.com/download/manuals/kompliste/bt8110/cdma.pdf

ftp://support:support@ftp1.navigon.com/download/manuals/kompliste/bt8110/others.pdf

Have discovered very little about the version of POI Warner installed on the device, there seems to be no way of looking at it. I think that the POI built into the device must be driven by POI Warner itself and could explain how the add on software (hopefully available soon) integrates itself into the interface.

chris_ah1 wrote:


Finding d) Screen a lot brighter and vivid looking than tomtom. Speakers and instructions nice too.



I love the screen on this, it's far better than my old VM x980t GPS

chris_ah1 wrote:


Finding e) Lots of stuff to configure in the settings pages!!! wooo. Thanks for showing the first 3 of 5 pages. Seriously, that stuff should be in the manual.



Manuals are very poor and they look to have been done by the same people who did the VM x980t manual. Honestly if you look at a USA Navigon manual they are much more detailed and well done (hard to do like for like comparison though. Same can be said about the USA website)

chris_ah1 wrote:


Finding f) TT responsive but slight lag after press. that looked nice and fast.



It's so much faster than my old GPS so I'm happy about that.
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jonandmarkuk
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Navigon really do need to get the same web designers from America to give the European sites a makeover. Razz
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chris_ah1
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonandmarkuk wrote:
Navigon really do need to get the same web designers from America to give the European sites a makeover. Razz


agreed, it's so out of date!!! You wouldn't know the product was for sale unless you browsed the shop.
I wish they put zagat on the EU models too hrrumph.

Have to disagree, I don't like the panorama view - I don't see what it adds other than it being slower. Perhaps in the countryside it is nice, but in the city Laughing Out Loud - no thanks Smile But at the risk of repetition the only 3d view i like is the nuvis....which got me thinking.........it could be due to the zoom factors used and how they bend the road for the distance.

Can you actually zoom in on the map whilst driving?
From what I've read it only zooms in when you slow down, out when you speed up - but you can change the degree of zoom I think in the menus.

One feature i loved on the iGo system was you could adjust the level of '3d' seamlessly from 2D to 3d to find a preferred angle and also zoom.
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